Do you need to be an established expert to do things?

Lämmchen

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I'm not sure if you need to be an established expert but if you're going to teach other people you need to be a good teacher and recognize that different students learn in different ways and adapt accordingly. I'm a good artist but I honestly don't think I teach very well because I just know how to do what I do.
 

Shole

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Ok so this is the thing, some people have a natural talent for the things they do, others learn it. For me as a coach I knew the basics, but at the start I was terrible because I was looking at my players and comparing them to myself and what I'd do, which you can't realy do 16 kid vs 24 year old ex pro player...So to do things you just need motivation, to do them good you need experience + dedication + motivation.
 
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Joshua Farrell

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It depends, some people who have experience, could be able to do things better than someone who went and earned a degree, but at the same time, a degree could mean that you have a more broad learning in how to do something, so you can apply different techniques to something. Most of your degrees that you can get at technical schools or at full colleges and universities, were learned originally by someone who had the experience and technical know-how, and yet didn't have a "degree" that people and companies insist that you get now, instead of proving you can do the same things through experience.
 
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Azareal

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Ok so this is the thing, some people have a natural talent for the things they do, others learn it. For me as a coach I knew the basics, but at the start I was terrible because I was looking at my players and comparing them to myself and what I'd do, which you can't realy do 16 kid vs 24 year old ex pro player...So to do things you just need motivation, to do them good you need experience + dedication + motivation.
I compare myself to people more competent all the time.
I am but a small dot in a vast cosmos.

But if I work hard then maybe I'll reach their level one day.
 

Shole

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It depends, some people who have experience, could be able to do things better than someone who went and earned a degree, but at the same time, a degree could mean that you have a more broad learning in how to do something, so you can apply different techniques to something. Most of your degrees that you can get at technical schools or at full colleges and universities, were learned originally by someone who had the experience and technical know-how, and yet didn't have a "degree" that people and companies insist that you get now, instead of proving you can do the same things through experience.
Ok a degree is important to get a job, a good job from the start, what it isn't good is that most people go through universities and sleep through(including myself). Either because of a wrong major, they choose it because of their parents or thought it would be fun but isn't and so on. Def get a degree, but also don't forget to work, anything, not because the experience of working a specific job will help you much (you never know the future) but you will get to experience how it is to work, as in being needed and responsible for a duty you have to do in exchange for money.

I compare myself to people more competent all the time.
I am but a small dot in a vast cosmos.

But if I work hard then maybe I'll reach their level one day.
Comparing is good, learning from them is better in my opinion. So far I worked for six years as a basketball coach, I do things my own way, it's not perfect, not polished to say the least, but I am learning from the top coach to the coach that just started. I am comparing results, but the thing is, I can't compare myself to them, personality is very important in this, so my personality differes a lot than 99% of them. Hence I try to learn, form the best and worst and all in between.
 

Rick Ace

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Ok so this is the thing, some people have a natural talent for the things they do, others learn it. For me as a coach I knew the basics, but at the start I was terrible because I was looking at my players and comparing them to myself and what I'd do, which you can't realy do 16 kid vs 24 year old ex pro player...So to do things you just need motivation, to do them good you need experience + dedication + motivation.
I compare myself to people more competent all the time.
I am but a small dot in a vast cosmos.

But if I work hard then maybe I'll reach their level one day.
That sounds both humble and depressing lol.

But I would say that comparing oneself to people who are more competent is important, as it is one mode of progress.

At the same time, I don't recommend picking up bad habits from people. I know some who sleep 4-5 hours a day, because they've heard their role model say that they've slept less and worked harder. No one is perfect. So, take the best from everyone you can.
 
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Azareal

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What do you mean? You mean it's more about the resume - than actual reality?
I dunno what he's trying to say there.

Resumes do play a huge role these days though, yes.
If you don't look up to snuff, then you might get passed up in favour of someone else.
Some companies even run resumes through AI for pre-screening.

It really depends though. An expert is valued just about anywhere, however a lot of information is becoming accessible which helps people to step up into positions which might have been prohibitively difficult or expensive (e.g. involving expensive courses or industry experience) before.

If that is what means, then he has a fairly good point there.

And I've mentioned it before, but beware of expert beginners.
These are people who think they're experts, but actually can't see the levels above them and wander around in circles thinking they have the expertise of top experts.

And all too often, they'll say things which directly conflict with consensus formed by industry and real top experts leading people astray. They drive me nuts when they do that and I'm a little too intolerant when people spread obvious fud. It's a bad habit which I'm trying to solve lol

This isn't too common in professions which involve actual certifications and tests, but it sometimes comes up in cowboy industries like programming, where pretty much anyone can walk out of high school and start doing things which make them feel empowered.

This is really just cited from an article on the subject, but one way to not be an expert beginner is to simply be aware of all the ways in which you're lacking. Everyone lacks some nugget of knowledge anyway, it's fairly normal.

As for those books mentioned in the OP, politics is one of those really nebulous things which everyone has an opinion about, but is really complex and tricky to understand.
And as everyone has their own opinion, you can pander to essentially just about anyone.

Not that I have read those books however. This is simply what I can come up with from using the limited information from this thread lol
 
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overcast

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I think some of the time being expert helps. But we are in the era where people are documenting their learning. And they seem to be being expert while documenting those things.
What do you mean? You mean it's more about the resume - than actual reality?
I was referring to real world experience process of "learn as you go" instead of learning for the sake of "resume".
 

Azareal

Paragon
I was referring to real world experience process of "learn as you go" instead of learning for the sake of "resume".
Example?

And one thing they teach in university (along with some classics like the big o notation) is learning to learn. Just dropping you in a bunch of random environments and expecting you to adapt immediately.

It's not so much the learning, but the ability to immediately adapt to many situations. Things change fairly frequently and knowledge can quickly become obsolete.

Recruiters do love adding fluff requirements no one takes seriously though.
Toilet paper certifications, knowing ten things that have nothing to do with the actual job, etc.

Apparently, that happens because the recruiter actually has no clue what the job is. They just hear someone go... Well, it would be nice if they had that. And they put requires Java for a JavaScript job.
 
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