Feedback Locking and archiving topics in Community Matters

Discussion in 'Community Matters' started by Ajay, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. Ajay

    Ajay I'm The Captain Now

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    My issue with Rick was that he locked the topics that I was creating which actually had valid points to them.
     
  2. Rick Ace

    Rick Ace Administrator Administrator

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  3. Princess MeowsePad

    Princess MeowsePad Chocolate Foot Princess Retired Admin

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    Quick question: Why is this topic open after not having generated a post in over two weeks and only having generated a total of thirty-nine replies when this topic was vaulted despite having been made over a week later, generating ninety replies, and still generating replies up to just a couple of hours before it was locked?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2019
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  4. Ajay

    Ajay I'm The Captain Now

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    Or any of my 5 threads lol
     
  5. Empire

    Empire Valued Contributor Valued Contributor

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    And why you gone off topic that's isn't what this thread is about. Yet again why this isn't locked like the others. o_O

    Why: they keeping it open so that they can get more feedback from more members regards PTL inputs.
     
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  6. Ajay

    Ajay I'm The Captain Now

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    So are we not supposed to ask questions?
    Yeah but at the same time, it sounds like they only want to leave stuff they agree with open.
     
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  7. Cosmic

    Cosmic Manners maketh man Retired Admin

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    This has been the subject of some controversy lately, so I thought I’d throw out a suggestion: remove the Conmunity Matters archive.

    Do we really need to have an archive? Once topics are solved, people just stop replying to them. That’s how forums work. Content with new posts flows to the top, and content without new posts goes to the bottom.

    Many large websites have feedback sections without an archive. Including our two biggest competitors.

    https://theadminzone.com/forums/suggestions-feedback.12/

    https://www.writingforums.org/support-and-feedback/

    https://forums.digitalpoint.com/forums/support-feedback.3/

    In fact, it is probably more common for sites to not have a feedback archive. Why does FP need one? It just closes down discussions prior to their natural end, and results in new topics being created that stir up drama.

    Why not just remove the archive and leave topics open? The solved prefix can be used to track issues that the staff thinks have been resolved.
     
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  8. Rick Ace

    Rick Ace Administrator Administrator

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    Well, it is definitely less work for the staff lol. The only issue I can see is that the discussions will occur non-stop (even for months) and not require any actual implementation. That would turn the Community Matters into nothing more than a discussion hub. TAZ and DP aren't exactly known for implementing new features too. On the other hand, I've noticed open source software developers have an archive for approved and rejected features. This keeps the main area clean, and ensure that threads result in change and not just discussion.

    Nevertheless, I suppose removing the CM archive is something that should be discussed. But the pros and cons of each would have to be weighed carefully.
     
  9. Cosmic

    Cosmic Manners maketh man Retired Admin

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    I agree that the issues you mentioned are there. But right now I do not see suggestions being implemented on FP. The current system is not resulting in feedback actually getting resolved. If anyone objects this point, I’d be glad to count up the number of actual suggestions that were implemented and compare them to the number that were not. I believe that the numbers would tell us that suggestions are not being implemented.

    What I do see is staff deciding not to do something prematurely, then archiving the topic as “solved.” It in fact is not solved unless the OP thinks it is solved. This archive is used as a means of brushing ideas under the bed. If someone suggests an idea, why not leave it open for further comments that may come up? Again, this is how forums work. And if members actually have concerns then the staff should be looking at how to listen to those concerns, not prevent them from being spoken.

    Software projects use bug trackers, which follow a more specific resolution flow. Bugs often go through multiple stages, including progress and code review. FP already has that flow in the new feature tracker. This should be used to capture flows that have a definite resolution, whereas CM should be used to listen to members. And why not listen to them? Even if a suggestion is implemented, why not hear feedback on how it is turning out?
     
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  10. Rick Ace

    Rick Ace Administrator Administrator

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    In my opinion, having the archive and marking things as solved is what allows everyone to determine if feedback is truly being resolved.


    If the issue that you're suggesting is real, wouldn't closing the archive make it worse? It's a matter of whether the archive is used to brush ideas under the bed or whether the entire section itself becomes the place to pour ideas.

    Does it make a difference if the ideas are allowed to accumulate in the Community Matters or if they accumulate in the archive? That doesn't sound like the issue you're trying to resolve.

    Personally, I'm open to the idea of getting rid of the archive. It does put a lot of pressure on the staff to monitor and close these threads. But if the problem you are suggesting is real, where threads are brushed aside, taking away the archive is likely going to make it worse and not better.
     
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  11. Cosmic

    Cosmic Manners maketh man Retired Admin

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    My suggestion is to keep the solved prefix but remove the archive. The solved prefix can continue to be used to track what is resolved. In fact, more specific prefixes can be added like Not Implemented, etc. All the archive does is end discussions. Discussions should not always be ended. Some continue as ongoing issues that are discussed as they are improved or worsen.

    Allowing new replies gives members a way to bring their ideas back up to the forefront. If my idea isn’t getting attention, I can ask for an update on it. Unless it’s archived. If it’s archived, it’s gone. I can’t reply to it. It’s just rejected. And what do I do if I think it’s still an issue, which of course it still is? I create a new topic. But that’s confusing. That leads to topics that are hard to follow. And it makes my experience worse as a member. To actually suggest an idea is like fighting through a thorny bush of locks, rejections, and silence.



    The difference is that topics outside the archive can still be replied to.

    My perspective here is that topics should only be locked when the idea lacks civility. Staff can just leave topics open, and why not? It doesn’t put any additional pressure on staff. They’re doing a fine just right now of silencing discussions when they want to anyway. If you’re saying that it’s too much work to silence these discussions, then my answer to that is just don’t. Let the members talk. If ideas fall to the bottom of the forum then the members have lost interest and there’s no need to bother with it anyway. Unless someone brings it to the forefront again, which is a good thing.
     
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  12. Empire

    Empire Valued Contributor Valued Contributor

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    I think we should keep it as is. Firstly it keeps the community matters clean and also it helps to keep track on what is open for the staff. When I was an CM it was easy to keep track by removing those that are archived, also to mention that the same old discussions topics gets created so many times.

    By moving the topics to archive (members can't post once in that board anyway) and locked if needed be then members like myself and staff can then look back at the old topics and posts. I'm always looking at old topics myself anyway before posting new topics.
     
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  13. Jerlene

    Jerlene Collecting FP$ Administrator

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    There's no need for a lot of the forums here, archives being some of them. I agree that we should get rid of the section. I think a good solution would be to let those threads die naturally, or just lock them instead of moving them to a different forum. This way the section is still organized and people still have access to those topics if needed.
     
  14. Cosmic

    Cosmic Manners maketh man Retired Admin

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    I agree with this so long as the locks would be kept to threads that actually need to be locked. Suggestions that do not promote a civil, respectful discussion. Questions that the OP thinks are solved but people are still arguing about it for some reason. Anything that gets gravebumped from the past, stuff like that. Any thread that is civil and still has potential use should be left.

    In other words: we should treat CM like we would literally any other section.
     
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  15. Empire

    Empire Valued Contributor Valued Contributor

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    even that those topics are locked it can be reopen again to be discussed as the topics title will be on topic rather then creating another darn topic again over and over.
     
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  16. Cosmic

    Cosmic Manners maketh man Retired Admin

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    Part of my point is that this creates a false since of resolution. Yes it may seem to the staff that the issue is resolved. But if they close the topic before the OP thinks the issue is resolved, it actually isn’t resolved, it just looks like it’s resolved on the surface. Then a new topic gets created and things get more and more confusing. So in a perfect world, maybe. But things are never as simple as that.

    Topics can be organized with prefixes, which can help the situation. And again, this would make CM like literally any other section. If a normal forum looks too confusing to keep track of then we should move away from xenForo or something. We all know how to use a forum here.
     
  17. Daniel

    Daniel Package Team Leader Package Team

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    I wonder if it'd be possible let the O.P. mark the thread as solved or whatever when they felt it was solved or answered? Maybe this isn't a good idea but it takes away some of the burden on the staff to try and follow up with each and every topic.

    I don't remember if this is already possible being that I have a staff rank and can basically do any of the prefixes.
     
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  18. Gio

    Gio FP's Greek Ambassador Community Team Retired Admin

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    Members are able to change prefixes of their topics in here.
     
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  19. Azareal

    Azareal Paragon

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    IPB has an issue tracker forum type, if I recall, although it might be a little pricey.
     
  20. Princess MeowsePad

    Princess MeowsePad Chocolate Foot Princess Retired Admin

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    The issue to which Cosmic is alluding is demonstrably true. If you guys are truly implementing suggestions, then why not leave feedback topics accessible? If there is truly nothing left to say about a topic because it has been fully addressed, people will stop replying, like Cosmic said. I think the answer is that you guys need a place to hide feedback topics because you don't want to listen to the users. You guys have your lane, and you get annoyed when users swerve into it with suggestions and feedback.
     
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