Solved Reform or abolish the community team

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Princess MeowsePad

Chocolate Foot Princess
Nothing against any particular person on the community team (this is more of a problem with the system), but the community team is in need of serious reform or abolition.

In 2011, the community team leader at the time named Snobothehobo had a team of three with @Lorcan and @Fiona1964. The forum at that time was gaining approximately five hundred posts per day, and as such, there was a great need for moderation. All three community team members also contributed content to the forum on a daily basis. Even with that amount of work, only a team of three was required.

In 2019, Forum Promotion gains (generously) one or two hundred posts per day, and there are currently four community team members. On such a quiet community, there is likely next to no moderation to be done, and while the community team members are likely trying to create content, it's simply not feasible with so few posting users. Couple that with the fact that there are still four administrators for some reason. Does it really take eight people to moderate a forum that only gets one or two hundred posts per day?

I realize that FP's current strategy is to add as many people to the staff as possible with the hope that it will drive up posting, but that doesn't seem to be working. People don't want to see only people with colorful usernames making posts, and many of the people on the staff could probably (ironically) contribute more to the forum as regular, active users.

I don't really think that there is any need for more than two administrators and maybe one moderator at this point. Anything more is extraneous.
 

Cosmic

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I agree. If the forum is having difficult getting people to post, then staff should focus on making the forum into a place where people want to post, then finding people who are going to do it.

Hiring people to “post” is just a perpetuation of the loserthink attitude of old which says that the only reason someone would post on FP is because they’re staff there.

No.

Staff shouldn‘t just be people who post a lot. Posting is something the members should do. Walmart doesn’t hire people who are good at shopping to shop at the store so that their sales go up. We need people who are good at creating environments that people want to post on.
 

Princess MeowsePad

Chocolate Foot Princess
I'm not sure if the current staff still has "staff activity tracking," but back in 2011, we didn't have to track staff posts. Staff members posted because they wanted to post because the forum was so full of awesome people back then. With seven billion people on Earth, surely we can find some awesome people who want to join FP.
 

Ajay

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Feb 23, 2011
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When I was on community team before, it was often drilled into me that posting was the necessary thing to do to stay on the staff team. The funny thing is, I don't think anyone posts more than Empire on here lol, maybe Josh from time to time. I don't think the staff team should lead the community by posting, but rather should just guide the community in the right direction. Let the community post, and reply to them to make conversation.

There really isn't that much moderation to do considering the spam tool does most of the work when there is a spammer. There are always at least 2 staff members on, with one or two actual members on at the same time, so the staff is outnumbering the amount of members right now, by a good margin.

You currently have 4 admins, where Lucky should be the exception, since he's doing other stuff like technical things. But the other 3 admins, including Cameron in this, are for community purposes. You also have 4 mods who don't bring much to the table right now, since there isn't anything really to moderate, other than make conversation every once in awhile. I think one or two mods could handle this.

Just having staff members post doesn't make it a good community, it looks rather desperate.
 

Jordan

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I'm on mobile at the moment so the only part of the title I read at first was "Reform or abolish the community".

Probably would have been a better suited topic to create
 
When I was community team member, which was only for three months, it wasn't long but at the time there was three CTM and only three. Keep in mind that there where people joining the staff team and leaving allot so then they hire more then they leave again. When Cameron taken over the forum we had some very old faces came back to the team and just over an month later they left the team o_O and the results are just as bad when they joined.

So As an CTM I did allot, dealt with reports, lock/unlocked topics, site battles and more. At times I was the only CTM online (60% of the time) and I agree even then there wasn't more then 5 normal members on. But what came to me that there was three CTM members in total and two or at times even same other staff members aren't active! I login in the morning in my time zones to see new reports (sometimes over 5 reports) and I deal with them and I'm like, I been off for 11 hours and in that time no other staff member taken care of the reports.....

It has changed now since then as we had new came in and the old out, Does matter how many staff we had it's just who is doing more work then others. One CTM can do most of it if that staff person is an good willing worker..

Even now with the list of staff members that FP has, I don't see everyone of those good members/people posting.. just an a couple are
 

shadowmaven

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May 22, 2011
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Thank you for the input everyone! While I primarily come into the picture as a technical resource, I can still offer some feedback to the overall picture here. I can appreciate where everyone is coming from as we all have been here for years and have seen the different times of FP, from good to bad. While we are certainly not the active community as years back, we still do have things we can do to pick back up where we left off. Now, there are some things being discussed internally that should help not only keep our current users engaged but at the same time improve on user acquisition as well. Is it going to be easy, of course not. However, it's certainly attainable.

On the discussion of too many team members for the number of daily posts we have. Again, I can briefly touch on this but again, I am mainly a technical resource and not focused on the teams' aspect as much as others. I don't think our main focus is just to pile on the team members and expect them to drive up the post count, just's just an absolute waste of time and going to cause burn out among all of the team members. I believe our main focus is to stabilize our service team members as there are changes coming to the services that will be underpinned by the current shift in service members. On the topic of the community team members, I don't believe I am the right person to talk on that as that would be for Gio to comment on. Maybe he can offer some insight as to the current direction of the team and future plans?

For the administration side, I think we are good with where we are at. While we aren't strict on the current structure of the admins as in past times, I believe we are beginning to reflect this pattern: Cameron is the owner and oversees everything, Josh is mainly the community admin if you will (as he normally is) with leading certain community initiatives and planning, Jerlene as possibility the service admin or working closely with the various teams and myself being technical. Again, none of our roles are really defined so this is loosely what I am seeing.

Do we have work to do? Undoubtedly. However, once we have our teams dialed in to support these initiatives and have a varied and diverse discussion amongst not only returning faces but also new faces among the team, we will do better overall.

Again, I respect everyone's input and appreciate this discussion. We need to take moments like this to call out our faults and come up with a plan, as one, to figure out where we go from here.
 
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Princess MeowsePad

Chocolate Foot Princess
That was a very professionally worded post, Lucky, but it's also the kind that Lucky the Retired Admin would have been pulling apart three weeks ago because you basically just took a lot of words to say, "We're keeping the staff the way it is" and threw in a few "we really respect you guys and appreciate this discussion [but aren't going to do anything about it]" remarks for good measure. I get it, though. That's part of being an admin. I've been there.

The problem is that there were four admins and four CTs when the forum was getting a thousand posts per day. Keeping staffing levels the same when the forum is getting less than a quarter as much activity doesn't make sense. You say that Josh is the community admin and is doing community initiatives and trying to drive activity. Josh is a great guy and does a lot of posting to keep FP interesting, but I don't see any community initiatives. I doubt that is Joshua's fault; I'm sure that he isn't getting a budget or any kind of support on doing such initiatives. I realize that the FP Awards and Site of the Month and all that are active, but that's nothing new; those have been done for years. You also say that Jerlene is the service admin. What services? Simply putting people in charge of things isn't going to make them appear out of thin air. There needs to be a budget and some direction. The approach seems to be putting staff members in charge of things that just don't exist with the hope that they will appear out of thin air, and that isn't a feasible strategy. There needs to be an effort to create such things before there is a staff member to be in charge of them.
 

John

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I don't think that we from the outside can say "we only need to have ___ moderators/administrators" - If I was into guessing, I would guess that someone like Gio or Joshua could probably do all the moderation on this forum. Last time I was on staff, there was almost nothing to do on that end. I remember a few years ago there were reminders for actual issues being sent out daily. Now I would assume that y'all probably send out a siggie reminder once a week, if y'all are busy. :p

Anyway - I always thought the "Community" Team was a slight issue in general. Ideas like Matt's to make the moderators only was a good idea; and ideas like Jack/Peter's idea to make them largely outside of moderation is a good idea. They just can't be seen as "friendly faces in the community" (yes that's been used to describe them before), when they're the ones sending out most of the reminders. That's like a cop giving you a speeding ticket then being mad when you don't invite them to your birthday party. It's just not what happens in the real world.

For whatever it's worth: I think the community team should be abolished. There should be one (or perhaps two) moderators that just do moderation. They're not obligated to post to a quota. They're not supposed to set up weird site battles. They're not supposed to do anything but moderate. Of course, if they want to do those things, they definitely should. Instead of having moderators trying to represent the community in the staff rooms, y'all should (idk if it's still there or not), bring back the "staff suggestions" and just pick people who are active in the community and make them "advisors." Put staff and maybe 10 "advisors" in this group and put ALL ideas into the board to talk about. They would be in charge of representing the community in staff rooms, but wouldn't have the odd obligation to post like a whore. Evaluate every three months or something to pick new members and get rid of the ones that don't do anything.

/2cents
 
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Ajay

I'm The Captain Now
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Question: What's a service admin? Isn't that what the team leaders are basically for, to manage and in the words of FP's staff guidelines, even own the service?

Ya'll have 3 Admins who do the same stuff and then one with technical skills.

Then you have additional moderators who follow the lead of the 3 Community Admins.

Gio can handle site battles if he wants to, don't see a need for multiple people to do that at the same time.
 
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This conversation isn't going anywhere and so why not leave the discussion to the admins and GiO and they will make the final decision on what's the best outcome for the community. Remember that end of the day it's a promotion fourm to help others and each other and for the past good five years it's going downhill to the point that FP needs remarking and help, not saying more staff but help side help
 

Ajay

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This conversation isn't going anywhere and so why not leave the discussion to the admins and GiO and they will make the final decision on what's the best outcome for the community. Remember that end of the day it's a promotion fourm to help others and each other and for the past good five years it's going downhill to the point that FP needs remarking and help, not saying more staff but help side help

Well, sometimes I think the community needs to have a voice, whether it be to call something out, or to give ideas. This thread is just to give ideas on how FP can be improved for the better.
 

Princess MeowsePad

Chocolate Foot Princess
This conversation isn't going anywhere and so why not leave the discussion to the admins and GiO and they will make the final decision on what's the best outcome for the community. Remember that end of the day it's a promotion fourm to help others and each other and for the past good five years it's going downhill to the point that FP needs remarking and help, not saying more staff but help side help
Why does all the discussion regarding how to improve this site have to take place in hidden, secret forums and private Skype chats? I've been saying for a long time that there needs to be a conversation in public involving regular users and staff members regarding how to improve FP. Still, though, major decisions are made with no community input whatsoever.
 

Bluezone777

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I can understand the power structure here as it does make sense. You have team members who do the work and the person a member is most likely going to deal with directly as they are the immediate first link in the chain of command is the team member.

A member doesn't like what he got from a team member, they can go to the director who can overrule a team member's decision if he or she feels that decision was out of line for whatever reason.

If a team member doesn't like what he gets from his or her director than they can go to their team admin who oversees the director and can overrule that director if the situation warrants it.

The three team admins are overseen by the owner and employer who can overrule them if the situation warrants it and is himself overseen by the community as a whole and can use their power to walk out as a check on the power of the owner.

Everyone has someone to serve and someone over them in authority as this makes it so everyone is kept honest from the top to the bottom and to show everyone has a role to play on this forum even if they aren't consciously aware of it.

The hiring of bigger staff teams and activity checks are responses to people's decreasing passion for this forum because no one can make you passionate about this forum as only you can do that for yourself. I wonder just much passion is really here anymore as it's likely people aren't all that excited for this forum and its future as it used to be and might be afraid of admitting it in fear of getting fired or being judged for it when in truth such honesty should be encouraged not discouraged.

Take a team or even a single person, give them a challenge that will challenge them, provide an atmosphere that's conducive to growth and you will be amazed at how far they will take themselves and how far other people will take themselves because of what they witnessed both in the one being challenging and the leader that is challenging them. A lot of the time, the problems leaders have is they either don't provide challenging challenges or simply don't provide an atmosphere that is conducive to growth than wonder why nothing happens.

This is really shown well in this clip shown below...

 
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Ajay

I'm The Captain Now
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Nothing is wrong here, no need to stir the pot.
I agree. At the end of the day, the team members are voluntarily giving up their time to help keep this place running. Without them, this forum wouldn't be where it is today.
Yes, but do you need so many people running the forum when there are only 10- 20 active members who aren't staff per day?
 

Dan The Man

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Shouldn't bother you. Maybe that's what is needed to keep the forum alive and running. As long as the community is moderated and services like the Posting Packages serviced and fulfilled, then it's fine in my opinion.
 
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