Who uses wordpress?

overcast

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I disagree with PHP being bad language. Lot of hate is being spread against PHP yet it stands strong. We are in 2019, PHP is not 2012s anymore. It's one of the good language and with 7.2 onwards lot of changes are happening. Laravel and WordPress pretty much cover most of the web. WordPress is lot better CMS to use than some .NET and Java made resource heavy crap.
 

Elli

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I disagree with PHP being bad language. Lot of hate is being spread against PHP yet it stands strong.
I dunno, I do think that--as a language--it is poorly made. Yeah, 7.2 improved things, but at its core it's still bad. This article goes into pretty good detail explaining what's wrong:

https://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/

There are a lot of problems brought up here that I wasn't even aware of. Most of my frustration surrounds how it handles comparisons, the inconsistent naming of methods, and how unhelpful errors are.
 

Azareal

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I disagree with PHP being bad language. Lot of hate is being spread against PHP yet it stands strong. We are in 2019, PHP is not 2012s anymore. It's one of the good language and with 7.2 onwards lot of changes are happening. Laravel and WordPress pretty much cover most of the web. WordPress is lot better CMS to use than some .NET and Java made resource heavy crap.
PHP is basically the devil. And the core team have no clue what they're doing and scream at each other like children. There was one time where a top contributor resigned in a big rage on their blog due to all the trolling, office politics, etc. going on there.

The whole thing is hacks built on hacks built on hacks. It is insecure to it's core and sticks band-aids on where they can to pretend to be "secure" when the bug bounties trickle in from security researchers wasting their time doing their jobs for them rather than searching for more pressing issues for the international community.

Also, there is a culture where developers blame admins, users, or whoever they can find for security issues which are inherent to PHP, whereas elsewhere as-long as you don't do something outlandishly stupid, you have a certain degree of freedom.

It is not secure by default, hence it is vulnerable to XSS attacks and developers have to specifically find each and every possible hole, particularly with inconsistent standards about how to mitigate them.

Also, to this day, the greatest disgrace of all, is that sites still get hacked with SQL Injections, an attack vector which was solved a decade ago elsewhere, but due to "performance issues", PHP developers refuse to adopt basic mitigations in many cases.

Heck, one of it's main package managers, the one where you get all of your PHP Extensions from, got hacked and the download replaced by one with a virus and no one noticed for six months. It was discovered a few weeks ago.

PHP is 10000% obsolete and it's existence is a blight on the internet.
Billions of dollars of damages are caused by this turd.
 
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Azareal

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I disagree and I leave it at that. If things were that chaotic, web's 70% CMS and website won't run PHP. It's just pure hate from developers of other languages nothing more nothing less.
I have developed in PHP for ten years. And it was absolutely disgusting.

Constantly behind every other stack, things constantly getting hacked, being absolutely paranoid about even the simplest bits of code, it was absolutely disgusting. Incompetence of the highest level.

I had to read a damn RFC and implement the WebSockets specification myself as this inept ecosystem is so far behind everyone else. In PHP, no less, a nightmare that makes it impossible to get anything done.

It is almost as if this language was written by the devil just to torture people.

Please don't be so completely ignorant. You want to know why they run PHP? It's because Wordpress was written in 2004 when the only competition to PHP was monopoly Microsoft and their let's get people to pay $10k per core for a stupid SQL Server License.

Facebook no longer uses PHP. Neither does YouTube. They haven't in quite a few years.
Wikipedia runs it, but it's a non-profit which can't afford to do a rewrite any-time soon.

The creators of Wordpress have even said that they wouldn't go anywhere near PHP, if they were starting today, but as we know, every theme and plugin in the ecosystem would *break* if they started using Node or Python or anything actually written by professionals with 40 years of real experience designing languages.
Analysis done in 2012? Really? No thanks.
It is just as valid today as it was in 2012. Anyone can attest to that, the rest of the world just doesn't want to waste any-more breath on convincing everyone about what they already know. That PHP is unpalatable.

And I already listed some pretty recent examples. Will you try to convince me that it's alright for a virus to stay up for six months from the official PHP Team poisoning who knows how many sites? Please try, I wonder what sort of twisted logic you'll come up to defend them.

There is no analysis to be made or arguments to be made. Simply because the problems with PHP are *that* absolute. It's down to whether people listen or not and how long it takes for the cPanel ecosystem to fall apart. Anything more is just wasting people's breath.
 
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overcast

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Like I said, assessment by the PHP haters is so poor that they don't see beyond language issues and so called security issues only they have found. I have blog on WordPress that is running since 2009. No security issues, loads quickly, meets my needs. I am fine with that. I have plenty of 4 page small business sites made for clients, with zero security issues and quick deployment. People who hate PHP can write entire book and argue on forums but people who use this language and get their work done will continue to do so. I am going to do the same. There is a reason why Automattic is not giving on PHP for WordPress. I'd rather trust their judgment over anything on any random forum or even from experts in other language. Each to their own.
 

Azareal

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Like I said, assessment by the PHP haters is so poor that they don't see beyond language issues and so called security issues only they have found. I have blog on WordPress that is running since 2009. No security issues, loads quickly, meets my needs. I am fine with that. I have plenty of 4 page small business sites made for clients, with zero security issues and quick deployment. People who hate PHP can write entire book and argue on forums but people who use this language and get their work done will continue to do so. I am going to do the same. There is a reason why Automattic is not giving on PHP for WordPress. I'd rather trust their judgment over anything on any random forum or even from experts in other language. Each to their own.
It's not a to each their own. PHP has caused the economy many billions in damages. It is a menace. It would be cute and a bit of a who the hell cares, if it didn't mean people getting their credit cards or identities stolen. If people can avoid it, then people could go write a website in Lolcode for all I care.

Practically everyone I know has been hit by PHP security issues, including yours truly.
I can list a lot of problems with just about any language, but I can respect people's choices with them. Not so with PHP.

Sony. Adobe. Several banks. Ten million children's personal information at vTech. And many more victims. Even today, you can see articles up about people actually skimming people credit card details thanks to Wordpress plugins powering eCommerce sites.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter to me, if not for these issues, other languages are far more efficient, productive and flexible. Instead of writing two thousand lines for something trivial, I can write a meagre ten. If people want to trade productivity for ease of deployment, then who am I to argue there.
 

Azareal

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Anyway. I know where you're coming from, when you're actually writing PHP, there is a bit of a code not to criticise it (otherwise you fall straight to hell) and to follow the "it'll get better" promises from the community, as you're only undermining your own position otherwise and to generally put your fingers in your ears and shout "lalala".

Been there. Done that.

The advice is always to diversify across multiple languages and not get too vested in one, if possible. If you really need PHP for one particular traditional client who just wanted a hacked up (and not in a security sense either) Wordpress instance, then fine, they are the boss, but I'm not pretending that it's a good choice.
 

overcast

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The advice is always to diversify across multiple languages and not get too vested in one, if possible.
This part is true. I am definitely in for diversifying. For example I favor node.js ( for premium freelance clients), Flutter or React Native (for Android), python for server side scripts etc. But suggesting Java and ASP based projects for clients who pay like 100$ or so for setting up blog and offering them Java or .Net based CMS is like shooting yourself in foot, arm and head at the same time. I know where PHP fits in the equation and where to let it go. Anyone with budget under 500$ expects me to use any other language than PHP or PERL is just going to be not only burden for me but it's like feeding communists while hating capitalism. Same logic can be applied to Windows vs Linux.

Things that are meant to be placed in some places, should not be changed based on activism, hate and idealism or even with technical superiority.
 

Azareal

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This part is true. I am definitely in for diversifying. For example I favor node.js ( for premium freelance clients), Flutter or React Native (for Android), python for server side scripts etc. But suggesting Java and ASP based projects for clients who pay like 100$ or so for setting up blog and offering them Java or .Net based CMS is like shooting yourself in foot, arm and head at the same time. I know where PHP fits in the equation and where to let it go. Anyone with budget under 500$ expects me to use any other language than PHP or PERL is just going to be not only burden for me but it's like feeding communists while hating capitalism. Same logic can be applied to Windows vs Linux.

Things that are meant to be placed in some places, should not be changed based on activism, hate and idealism or even with technical superiority.
That's not how things work. You choose something because it is the best tool for the job, not necessarily because it's what people have always used, although it probably could be argued that people used horses for quite a while after the first auto-mobiles came onto the streets.

And I didn't suggest ASP or Java at all. Although, modern .NET is way faster than you give it credit for (e.g. resource hog), it can even give C++ a run for it's money in some situations.

Node.js, Python, Go, and as my C# loving friends would say, C# are viable alternatives to PHP. Also, there are options for blogs other than Wordpress, although not quite as flexible due to all of Wordpress' plugins and a plethora of themes.

The problem you describe specifically here is not a language one, but that people love using Wordpress (and it's plugins) as a framework for developing their sites, due to a culture which has been built up and a fair bit of infrastructure.

It's probably easier to buy a $40 theme and to hack it up to make it look different than it is to come up with something from scratch, particularly for things at the $400 price point, this is all too common in the industry.

For something actually original, you would probably have to pay something on the order of $1k.
 

Elli

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The problem you describe specifically here is not a language one, but that people love using Wordpress (and it's plugins) as a framework for developing their sites, due to a culture which has been built up and a fair bit of infrastructure.

It's probably easier to buy a $40 theme and to hack it up to make it look different than it is to come up with something from scratch, particularly for things at the $400 price point, this is all too common in the industry.
^ This. PHP would not be so common today if not for WordPress and the community surrounding it.
 

harsumeetsingh

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There are many interesting features of using Wordpress.
Pixel perfect design and beautiful, legible typography. Thoughts give you the perfect recipe for creating your online presence. Built around the native WordPress Customizer, Thoughts allows easy editing of your site title, accent color, logo and more.
Wordpress is easy to manage but if you need a professional design then I prefer you to hire a Profession Wordpress Development Agency.
There is some feature which are very advance and which are out of reach from the people who are not from a developer background.
 

maxxthompson

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Since WordPress has wide integration with 3rd-parties capabilities, I would advise you to stick to it. What is more, it has a great ecommerce plugin WooCommerce, that is in no respects worse than a full-bodied ecommerce platform.