But Nobody Owes Us Anything

[Jason76]

This seems to be a cop-out. For instance, in my thread, Bias Due to Politics, someone could just say, "Well, nobody owes anyone anything. People like what they like. Get over it!"

Anyway, I heard this line from radical atheist also. I said something like "But isn't an afterlife with nothing kind of sucky?". His response was this snarky, "But nature doesn't owe us anything. Get over it!".

Well, I suppose I agree with the title of this thread to an extent - but to some extent that isn't true. I mean, the person whom you think is whiny - might have legit arguments, arguments being ignored - cause the attacker simply won't look at things with an open mind, is being arrogant.

 

[Setfragil]

If you are talking from politics angle, I will say people owe us a lot. They owe us good health system, provision of jobs or creating enabling environments for businesses to thrive, they owe us security for the protection of lives and properties.

 

[PaidPoints]

This seems to be a cop-out. For instance, in my thread, Bias Due to Politics, someone could just say, "Well, nobody owes anyone anything. People like what they like. Get over it!"

Anyway, I heard this line from radical atheist also. I said something like "But isn't an afterlife with nothing kind of sucky?". His response was this snarky, "But nature doesn't owe us anything. Get over it!".

Well, I suppose I agree with the title of this thread to an extent - but to some extent that isn't true. I mean, the person whom you think is whiny - might have legit arguments, arguments being ignored - cause the attacker simply won't look at things with an open mind, is being arrogant.

This last statement here caught my attention, because it is so true and happens almost every time with more than 70% of people that I get involved in argument with. To them, it's a fight! They are trying to win and prove that they are right. They never keep an open mind and their sole aim is to counteract whatever you are going to say. It's really hard, especially when you know you are right.

I prefer to not really argue about certain things. Because some people know the truth but intentionally lie to themselves just to save face or whatever, Just trying to win the argument.

Argument is not a fight. The aim is to discover what is true and maybe one could learn what one didn't know before. I could be wrong, you could be wrong, I could be right. You too could be right!.

 

[MrDawn]

This seems to be a cop-out. For instance, in my thread, Bias Due to Politics, someone could just say, "Well, nobody owes anyone anything. People like what they like. Get over it!"

I couldn't agree more. I have a moral obligation to support my children, my girlfriend, and my family. They are my support, they are who I care about the most. If we don't give something, if we don't invest in each other, we can't expect anything back in return. There are fewer rewards when one goes through life with a "f*** the world" attitude and thinking you can do what you want. To get help we must give help. You have to give to get. We can't just take take take and take and say "I owe you nothing!" when we're called out on it. That is immature thinking. I think we owe it to ourselves and our loved ones to unite and build a better life together. United we stand, divided we fall. This is true on so many levels. When I was a child I read this book called "The Giving Tree." My mother gave it to me. I actually learned a lot from that book's message.

The book follows the lives of an apple tree and a boy, who develop a relationship with one another. The tree is very "giving" and the boy evolves into a "taking" teenager, a middle-aged man, and finally an elderly man. Despite the fact that the boy ages in the story, the tree addresses the boy as "Boy" his entire life.

In his childhood, the boy enjoys playing with the tree, climbing her trunk, swinging from her branches, carving "Me + T (Tree)" into the bark, and eating her apples. However, as the boy grows older, he spends less time with the tree and tends to visit her only when he wants material items at various stages of his life, or not coming to the tree alone (such as bringing a lady friend to the tree and carving "Me +Y.L." (her initials, often assumed to be an acronym for "young love")) into the tree. In an effort to make the boy happy at each of these stages, the tree gives him parts of herself, which he can transform into material items, such as money (from her apples), a house (from her branches), and a boat (from her trunk). With every stage of giving, "the Tree was happy".

In the final pages, both the tree and the boy feel the sting of their respective "giving" and "taking" nature. When only a stump remains for the tree (including the carving "Me + T"), she is not happy, at least at that moment. The boy does return as a tired elderly man to meet the tree once more. She tells him she is sad because she cannot provide him shade, apples, or any materials like in the past. He ignores this (because his teeth are too weak for apples, and he is too old to swing on branches and too tired to climb her trunk) and states that all he wants is "a quiet place to sit and rest," which the tree, who is weak being just a stump, could provide. With this final stage of giving, "the Tree was happy".

The Giving Tree - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Jason76]

I don't think anyone owes us anything, but more cooperation would be nice. I think the whole mantra is an excuse for some, so they don't have to deal with other people's problems - cause, ironically, they're too lazy/selfish to do so.