gaileeflores
Up-and-Coming Sensation
HAHA funny comments. :lol: god or no god. the bottom line is everything that happens, everything you do, its because of YOU. its all IN you.
Does God Exist-Yes/No Discussion
- Thread starter PumpingIronForums
- Start date
I firmly believe in no god in the personified meaning most of society refers to him/her as... if someone wants to collectively group together all the forces of the universe that do indeed make things happen and label them God then I am inclined to agree... that being said, there is then no need to worship (e.g. gravity) or let it make any difference in day to day life or morals
My mind and heart tells me there is a supreme being. The acts of kindness I see in people tells me there is one too. The free will tells me it. However, nothing tells me to force religion on others and decide whether they will go to "hell" or "heaven". I think good things happen to good people, no matter their lifestyle or way of life.
Shawn said:
What about people are starving and dyeing in poverty because of corrupt governments?. God gave those people in power the free will to condemn their population to poverty and is happy with this choice?.
Dennis said:
The governments of those countries are the reason for that, not God. 🙂 Or at least that is how I see it. And those people should rise up and demand a change... Other countries are doing it and getting results.
I do feel for those people, though, I really do. If that is a part of a greater plan, I don't agree or like that plan.
But its not going to force me to become an atheist and have that horrible void in my life...
Shawn, I believe you live in a country that doesn't exists since that long to know what religions and I mean people who represent those have done to people in the past. Catholist for exemple, before 1700, God was the all mighty that anyone needed to believe, if not, or if you did something that is not in te book, you would have been burned down in public place, also, the Church was the worse institute when it came to tax, they had 3/4 taxes, ripping people to death while these people were living in luxury. That's no government is it?
GamerPerfection
Resident
In my mind there is no God. There has never been solid proof of God or any higher power. If someone has an act of kindness it is because they chose to make that act of kindness, nothing to do with God.
coolframe said:
It doesn't matter where you live...
But I know about the Catholics, my eastern German family are all Catholics. I am a Freemason you know, we have had the opportunity of being victim of the Catholic regimes. The Catholics also used to burn mentally challenged people at the stake because they thought they were possessed. Mental illness wasn't founded in those days.
Yes, its very sad.
Horrible.
But does that make me not believe in God? Not at all... seeing as Man did that, not God 😉
People will always look to blame God before blaming their own species. And its only human to do such a thing - not shocking at all.
Livid Legends
Acquaintance
Yes.
Gamer Outpost
Resident
God is real. The world is far too complex for the Big Bang and Evolution theories.
If you don't believe, you'll find out the hard way. I don't really know what else to tell you.
If you don't believe, you'll find out the hard way. I don't really know what else to tell you.
The best evidence for design can be seen in the nature, of the universe and how it came to be. I believe we are truly meant to be here. The question is how could life have arisen naturally if there was no directing mechanism at all in Nature? Natural selection cannot produce anything. Even Chaos theory shows that only a minimal level of order will ever be possible by chance. And what about macro-evolution? Darwin was only right about natural selection and micro-evolution, but not about macro-evolution. Do you believe that natural selection will solve all of evolution's problems? It can only select from what is produced. Furthermore, natural selection operates only once there is life and not before.
No evidence for God? I could just as easily say that there is no evidence that chance mutations can or will provide increasingly more complex genes for natural selection to act upon so that evolution would be possible from simpler species to more complex ones. Concept and design necessitate an intelligent designer, does it not? The presence of intelligent design proves the existence of an intelligent designer, does it not? Is the proof of God not all around us? This last part is very important because human beings intervene in bacteria, but the bacteria will never be able to know about human beings and their intervention. In a situation like that, unless the bacteria evolves greatly, it does not matter for the bacteria knowing about the existence of humans, right?
My personal argument for intelligent design is supported by observation of the facts. Just take a look at DNA. When you observe the facts, you will observe the incredible pattern of interrelated complexity. So when you look at the evidence objectively, and without ruling out the possibility of design, how could design not jump up as the most likely explanation? I, as a believer, will maintain that it is a creation.
No evidence for God? I could just as easily say that there is no evidence that chance mutations can or will provide increasingly more complex genes for natural selection to act upon so that evolution would be possible from simpler species to more complex ones. Concept and design necessitate an intelligent designer, does it not? The presence of intelligent design proves the existence of an intelligent designer, does it not? Is the proof of God not all around us? This last part is very important because human beings intervene in bacteria, but the bacteria will never be able to know about human beings and their intervention. In a situation like that, unless the bacteria evolves greatly, it does not matter for the bacteria knowing about the existence of humans, right?
My personal argument for intelligent design is supported by observation of the facts. Just take a look at DNA. When you observe the facts, you will observe the incredible pattern of interrelated complexity. So when you look at the evidence objectively, and without ruling out the possibility of design, how could design not jump up as the most likely explanation? I, as a believer, will maintain that it is a creation.
Okay, well here is my question for you. If our intelligence necessitates a designer, then certainly a higher power who is infinitely more intelligent than we are would also need a designer, correct? If so, who created God? Who created the being who created that being?Pawacorn said:
I think you see where I'm going. Saying that God has always existed, or created himself are both illogical ideas that have no evidence.
pandaa said:
Your argument is that if all things need a cause, then God must also need a cause,right? Your conclusion seems to be is that if God needed a cause, then God is not God (and if God is not God, then of course there is no God).
Your series of three questions is tricky because it sneaks in the false assumption that God came from somewhere and then asks where that might be. God is not in the category of things that are created or caused. We know that from nothing, nothing comes. So, if there were ever a time when there was absolutely nothing in existence, then nothing would have ever come into existence. Logic should tell you that nothingness can not be measured in a lab. There is still outside factors present that influence matter, gravity etc.. God is God, He doesn't have any limitations. He created matter. He created all that is, both material and incorporeal.
The reason I find it unnacceptable to think that the universe simply existed eternally without God is because that leaves no explanation for consciousness or intelligence. A materialist will say that it came about randomly from nothing. 'Random' and 'nothing' are due to lack of perception. If we conclude that nothing exists, then nothing exists, stop talking about it. Either nothing exists and we move on, or something does exist and that existence must constitute the existence of a supreme and eternal intelligence.
The 1st law of thermodynamics states that matter/energy cannot be created out of nothing, neither can it be destroyed. So where did the energy in the universe come from? The only possibility is an act of creation. The first law asserts that matter, under natural circumstances, can neither be created nor destroyed. Therefore, since creation is not a natural event, it is by definition a supernatural event - a miracle. Since matter is not eternal we are left with only one option - it arose out of nothing at a finite point in the past.
Things do exist. Therefore, since there could never have been absolutely nothing, something had to have always been in existence. That ever-existing thing is what I call God. The logical conclusion is that God is the uncaused Being that caused everything else to come into existence. God would be the uncreated Creator who created the universe and everything in it. If God is the uncreated creator of the universe, He is the creator of time. He is not limited by the time dimension He created, so He has no beginning in time. Therefore, He does not have, or need to have, a cause.
Now, if we accept that God doesn’t have a belief in a being higher than himself, we must conclude that God is without belief in a higher supreme being and is therefore an atheist. If you say he isn't an atheist, this line of reasoning then becomes absurd, because it inevitably results in an infinite regression of Gods, each of whom have a higher authority before them. God has nothing to believe in for all things are in Him.
The very idea that God might be an atheist seems, at first glance, to be preposterous. But it is in fact, a necessary consequence of this line of thought. Since there is no higher being than God, then there is no one else God could believe in and this makes him an atheist, at least by default, if not by intention. No one can be an atheist who does not know all things. Only God can be an atheist.
The people who call themselves "atheists" will likely say, 'there was nothing - no time, space, matter or energy. Then there was a quantum fluctuation from which...' Whoa! Stop right there. You see what I mean? First there is nothing, then there is something. And the cosmologists try to bridge the two with a quantum flutter... Then they are away and before you know it, they have pulled a hundred billion galaxies out of their quantum hats. :roll:
You have to realize that the very fundamental law of science is the principal of cause and effect: no effect can be greater than its cause. In other words, there can be nothing created which is greater than the thing that created it. Follow this reasoning: :great:
1. The universe cannot be self-caused - nothing can create itself, because it would need to exist before it came into existence.
2. Everything which has a beginning has a cause.
3. The universe has a beginning.
4. Therefore the universe has a cause.
Well, where did we come from? Something had to have always existed. Where is the evidence of where we came from? Some people will say monkeys, but where did monkeys come from? Have we always been here?pandaa said:
Gamer Outpost
Resident
pandaa said:
Ok, than who (or what in your case) created the Big Bang?
God (who is all powerful and can do whatever he wants to do) has always existed, that is what Christians believe. If you disagree, than suit yourself. We can't answer that question because that is not what we believe...
The Governor
Seasoned Veteran
I have never believed in "God" due to personal things that have happened in my life. My entire family is Christian, and my mother has tried so hard to convert me and failed. My absolute refusal has resulted in her crying several times because when she goes to "heaven", she wants to know that someday she'll see all her kids again.
I am a physical proof kind of guy. I cannot read a "bible" and instantly believe everything it says. My mother has mentioned previously that someday "God" will come to Earth to take his believers with him. On that day and that day only will I believe that he exists. Until then, there is no physical proof in the slightest.
I am a physical proof kind of guy. I cannot read a "bible" and instantly believe everything it says. My mother has mentioned previously that someday "God" will come to Earth to take his believers with him. On that day and that day only will I believe that he exists. Until then, there is no physical proof in the slightest.
defaultuser
New Arrival
God exists. The very existence of us is not coincidence, it is a creation by the most high. Believers will believe, for the rest I pray.
Drago said:
I respect your views, however I do want to say this: When Christ does come back to Earth to take the Church with Him, those who do not believe in Him will not go with Him. It's not really He'll come down and be down.
The Governor
Seasoned Veteran
Giorgios said:
That's fine with me. If it turns out "he" is real, and I'm left behind while others are taken, I can live with that and will be fine.
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