Pirate Party UK is Official

That's what's called a misleading poll in political science.

You only mention good things in order to convince people to support one thing over the other. Classic democracy technique since the beginning of spoken language.

For example, if I said the following:

" Hey, support the PATRIOT Act, it will keep terrorists away "

Not one person would say I don't support it. That's because I didn't mention that the act allows the government to access anything they want, including monitor your email and phone calls without warrants, or detain people without trial 🙂
 
I've moved this to the debate forum as thats pretty much all it is :roll:
 
Irviding said:
" Hey, support the PATRIOT Act, it will keep terrorists away "

I don't support it. 🙂

Also the edit was a mere joke that looks like, none of you got.
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To ALL of you that don't get it above, the pirate party has done this to be DIFFERENT, no one ever said that's the ONLY thing they will be doing, as Leo and I have been saying in the past pages, they have said this to gain a crowed, they do support other things... It's like Hitler saying work and bread... it's not like it was the only thing he did (as you can see by the pot holes and long rows of crosses over the land!) but it was his base and gained a crowed out of it.

Your not understanding a thing really and only focusing on the 'we'll give you free downloads' bit like they want you to, to get people to notice it and THEN notice the other key points, which you are not looking at...

Need to think a bit more guys!


EDIT:
CarMadMike said:
I've moved this to the debate forum as thats pretty much all it is :roll:

Your a star. 😉
 
Danielw879 said:
Irviding said:
" Hey, support the PATRIOT Act, it will keep terrorists away "

I don't support it. 🙂

Also the edit was a mere joke that looks like, none of you got.
-----------


To ALL of you that don't get it above, the pirate party has done this to be DIFFERENT, no one ever said that's the ONLY thing they will be doing, as Leo and I have been saying in the past pages, they have said this to gain a crowed, they do support other things... It's like Hitler saying work and bread... it's not like it was the only thing he did (as you can see by the pot holes and long rows of crosses over the land!) but it was his base and gained a crowed out of it.

Your not understanding a thing really and only focusing on the 'we'll give you free downloads' bit like they want you to, to get people to notice it and THEN notice the other key points, which you are not looking at...

Need to think a bit more guys!

What other points? They would be about as much use as a nun's tits and I can't see them being any good under pressure.

This is painful.
 
The point is you guys don't understand business. If you make it legal to steal over the Internet and get things people put money and hard work into ( for example, a movie costs anywhere from 15 to 500 million dollars now, the dark knight, for example, had about 200 million dollar budget ) Do you honestly think that a company can survive by not making any money at all off of their movies?

What about video games? Those cost hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars to make too. I have a friend who does voice work for RockStar games Grand Theft Auto IV and that game cost in the hundreds of thousands range just from making it and from the advertising and promotion you saw on your TV channels.. Do you honestly think that if people could just download it free online legally from their local bestbuy.com, rockstar would make any money off the game? Honestly, tell me if you think that.

I really want an answer from both you, and Ghost.
 
Sorry i'm late, been busy doing summer assigned reading work before school starts >.>

Anywho, here's your answer;
The models that are in place right now work as so, a company makes a game (we'll use this example) and then sells it. If the game is good, then people will buy it and play it and everyone is happy.

Let's look at the Pirate Party's model;
A single developer creates a simple game for the iPhone. He opts to sell it on the iStore. It gets pirated, his sales rise. Why? Exposure, since his name was not well known it took people trying it *before* they bought it for him to get buyers.

Does every pirate donate? No. Does everyone buy from the store rather than steal? No. The majority of pirates donate when they are able to in hopes that their "artist" or "developer" will make more.

I know you'll attempt to counter this plan with "donations won't be enough to pay everything" and it won't. Games are meant to be played in your free time, and a developer shouldn't have that as their full time job. Instead the people that *actually enjoy* making games (not the people who do it because it pays well) should be doing it in their free time and get all the extra money it brings into their lives, whether it's large amounts (if the game is good) or small amounts (if the game isn't so good).

Instead of Hollywood snatching up people they can exploit, remix their voice, and sell off for millions, let the people who enjoy it do it and let them rake the rewards. If I really wanted to, I could get a friend to write a song and get another friend to mix up a beat and I could be the next big pop star, all from my home (because Hollywood would buy me up). I'd do it for the money though because singing isn't my thing. If someone has a real talent for singing and doesn't need remixers, shouldn't they be the ones getting the money, and shouldn't they be the ones getting the money DIRECTLY?

I always encourage people to support the developers, the artists, the movie makers. Youtube has taught us that if you give a few million monkey's a camera, you get decent results. If one of those money's made a full length movie and placed ads in it, released it as a free download, it would make them money - if it's good then well enough money to make another movie or at least be worth their time. Hollywood works on budgets of 200 million because they use special effects, a movie can be good quality without $200,000,000 worth of special effects and famous actors if you ask me.

That's my reasoning. Pay the artists, but make the artists the people that want to do it because they love to do it, not the greedy hogs you see these days 🙂
 
ℓєσ gнσѕт said:
Sorry i'm late, been busy doing summer assigned reading work before school starts >.>

Anywho, here's your answer;
The models that are in place right now work as so, a company makes a game (we'll use this example) and then sells it. If the game is good, then people will buy it and play it and everyone is happy.

Let's look at the Pirate Party's model;
A single developer creates a simple game for the iPhone. He opts to sell it on the iStore. It gets pirated, his sales rise. Why? Exposure, since his name was not well known it took people trying it *before* they bought it for him to get buyers.

Does every pirate donate? No. Does everyone buy from the store rather than steal? No. The majority of pirates donate when they are able to in hopes that their "artist" or "developer" will make more.

I know you'll attempt to counter this plan with "donations won't be enough to pay everything" and it won't. Games are meant to be played in your free time, and a developer shouldn't have that as their full time job. Instead the people that *actually enjoy* making games (not the people who do it because it pays well) should be doing it in their free time and get all the extra money it brings into their lives, whether it's large amounts (if the game is good) or small amounts (if the game isn't so good).

Instead of Hollywood snatching up people they can exploit, remix their voice, and sell off for millions, let the people who enjoy it do it and let them rake the rewards. If I really wanted to, I could get a friend to write a song and get another friend to mix up a beat and I could be the next big pop star, all from my home (because Hollywood would buy me up). I'd do it for the money though because singing isn't my thing. If someone has a real talent for singing and doesn't need remixers, shouldn't they be the ones getting the money, and shouldn't they be the ones getting the money DIRECTLY?

I always encourage people to support the developers, the artists, the movie makers. Youtube has taught us that if you give a few million monkey's a camera, you get decent results. If one of those money's made a full length movie and placed ads in it, released it as a free download, it would make them money - if it's good then well enough money to make another movie or at least be worth their time. Hollywood works on budgets of 200 million because they use special effects, a movie can be good quality without $200,000,000 worth of special effects and famous actors if you ask me.

That's my reasoning. Pay the artists, but make the artists the people that want to do it because they love to do it, not the greedy hogs you see these days 🙂

What he said. :happy:
 
Plus if people download things illegally, it is stealing, and if people are in jail for it, tough ****. They shouldn't have done it in the first place, they are fully aware what they are doing is illegal. It doesn't matter if it might be not in proportion to other crimes and their punishments, but they know what they are doing is illegal so they are punishing themselves. :|
You do realize that if you had gone threw with adding that iTunes thing on your site you wouldn't have been sued, jailed, and then some? They take down providers the hardest, and you wern't aware. Don't pull that :\

I just read through page 4, must say guys, disappointed. Do you guys have a rival to Hollywood over there anyway? I'm sure you can't honestly sit there and let a company from a different COUNTRY tell you what you can and can't do, much less sue you and have you jailed... that's just wrong. Lack of pride really.

Oh, and thanks for moving it Mike ^_^
 
You're kidding with the donations thing, right? Seriously ghost.. you're grasping at straws with all of your arguments.

Since the start of trading, things have had a cost. If you want something, you need to pay for it. That's all it comes down too. Your arguments that it will be better for the artists and movies are totally ridiculous. This really just all boils down to that YOU don't want to pay for things, that's all.
 
All people here make some good points (well not all of you, but some).
The one thing that I heard was that there are some Artists that actually said piracy and warez boosted their ratings and got their name or album out.

Just saying.
 
I give up... if you seriously think the Pirate Party would be best for any country, especially the UK, I suggest you go and see a psychiatrist. :roll:

The only thing people can argue a case for with the Pirate Party is in the media... :roll:
 
@Irviding
If you want to put it that way after everything that has been said, then at least say the facts correctly. It's not that I don't want to pay for things (which I just said i'd donate if I liked it....) but rather it's our generation as a whole. No matter how you want to put it, our generation will not stop pirating until something is done to make it so that pirating is not illegal.

@sshare
I know, i've read things just the same on the matter.

@sbfc
I will not say that the Pirate Party is the best for the UK, because I don't live there and I know nothing about it. This top was general discussion about the Pirate Party, never saying that it was the best, I simply predicted that it could do very well. Do not put words in my mouth :roll:
 
It still is possible for movie corporations to make money, even with them letting people watch them for free. Just look at the creators of southpark, all of their episodes are available online on their site and they still make money with limited advertising, same as hulu is doing. Everyone wins in that situation, what problem do you see with that? Same thing can be done with music, sites like playlist and grooveshark exist, artists can do the same thing and earn from ad profits.
 
ℓєσ gнσѕт said:
@Irviding
If you want to put it that way after everything that has been said, then at least say the facts correctly. It's not that I don't want to pay for things (which I just said i'd donate if I liked it....) but rather it's our generation as a whole. No matter how you want to put it, our generation will not stop pirating until something is done to make it so that pirating is not illegal.

What generation are you talking about? I'm what 1-2 years older than you? I don't think it's as a whole. Not one person I know in real life wants piracy to be legal ( my age ). It really does sound good in the first place, but in the end all , it doesn't work.

You can't just make it legal to steal over the Internet. What you want to do is the same thing as companies releasing DVD's, and you busting into the store taking it.

And please, ad revenue is not enough money to pay for a movie budget or a video game budget. Myspace, for example earns about 25 million in ad revenue. There's not a lot of sites who would be able to earn more in ad revenue. If you take into consideration that if you allowed movies to be watched for free, you'd get MAYBE 30 million in revenue, and that's all the movie company gets, when it costs them hundreds of millions to make the movie.

Sorry, but your plan and your whole arguement is moot. It really just comes down to you not wanting to pay for anything.
 
How many times have I said that I donate to the artists that I like to support them eh? This isn't about ME not wanting to pay for anything. Ans yes mate, it's OUR generation according to that poll, according to the industry (they know it's not the grandma's downloading the stuff). I congratulate you on the fact that your parents were able to store enough old "morals" in you that you see it as stealing no matter what and you can't be changed. Well guess what, i'm just as stubborn :]

Every point in this topic you've made I have countered, every point i've made you've countered. Was every point the best? No, but overall we're both even point wise. However neither of us will let the other win because we both have a mindset that won't change - that's all it will ever come to at this point in time on this issue between us.
 
All I'm going to say at this point, is donations would never be able to pay an artist. What, " oh I like this song, I'll send him a buck via paypal "
 
Irviding said:
All I'm going to say at this point, is donations would never be able to pay an artist. What, " oh I like this song, I'll send him a buck via paypal "
Radiohead did that with an album, letting people pay as little or as much as they wanted, even allowing them to download it for free. Wasn't bad considering they didn't have to go through the record company 😉

I'd say more like, "These guys are pretty good, I'll order a ticket to one of their concerts when they're nearby,"
 
The point is none of you understand that buying a ticket or giving a donation is NOT enough to cover what it costs for songs to be made and all of the shit that has to happen.
 
Irviding said:
The point is none of you understand that buying a ticket or giving a donation is NOT enough to cover what it costs for songs to be made and all of the shit that has to happen.
Many independent artists record their music and put it for free online, on services like myspace music or the newgrounds audio portal. Some of those artists I think are on the same level, if not a higher one than commercial artists, yet they take no $$ for it.
 
@Irviding
Do me one favor, can you please tell me how remixers are able to produce songs that I really really enjoy and release them for free? I mean, if they can take another song that I don't like and make one that I love out of it, all for free... why couldn't the original song be made for free?

Also:
1 copy of Mixcraft = $65, that's how much it costs to make a remix. If it's good and each listener gives $0.50 (average), and it gets listed on Last.FM and it gets 80,000 downloads....

Edit: TV
You say Movies can't survive on adverts in them... yet TV does just fine with huge budgets as well? "Chuck" has amazing special effects (better than most movies if you ask me) yet I can watch it free on my TV at home... =D
 
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