Schools and freedom of expression/confiscations

katy perry is hot

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A topic was made just a few days ago by snobo about a school that suspended a kid for wearing the confederate flag... now we see cases like this all the time, but there really is no good legal answer to what they can and cannot do with this type of stuff. What do you guys think? Should a school be able to enforce a dress code (public school) should they be able to take student property (in most cases, parent property) and keep it overnight? I know my school has a policy in which if your cell phone is confiscated more than once, it's kept by the dean's office until your parent comes to pick it up, and I really don't see how they have the legal right to do that at all. I am all for a teacher taking a device during the class period because the student is being disruptive, but keeping it until a parent comes just doesn't sit right with me. It doesn't sit right with my parents either.. I've only gotten the first offense where I could pick it up myself from the office, actually I've gotten it like 2 or 3 times but they don't seem to record my name ever, but you get the point. Basically the topic is how much power should public schools have because it seems that they are getting way too much and they are getting away with way too many things that would be frowned upon in other public place.. for example, no wearing confederate flag in a school, but if i wore a confederate flag into a post office, which is also a government building (we all know how serious the government takes its mail, and that's not a joke either) and an attendant asked that i take it off or be booted from the building, what would happen? What type of fallout? Obviously it would be a lot different in a post office, a tax payer funded building, with tax payer funded workers, than it would be in a school, a tax payer funded building, with tax payer funded workers. That may not be the best example, but you get the point.
 
Public schools should have enough power to cater for the general wellbeing of students, so long as it's the students who determine what is acceptable or not, and not primarily the teachers.

Obviously if someone is constantly banging against a table and the whole class disapproves, then something should be done, but if it was like a student texting, and the teacher walking around and then discovering it whilst no one else is being disrupted, then it should be fine because it is the student's choice to disrupt themselves. So, situations should be a case by case consensus.

For the dress code/uniform statement, in Australia, you either conform with the rules or are not allowed to attend that school. But the contradiction behind that is that through law, students prior to university must attend school, so if someone doesn't want to conform, what can be done about it? And if enough students don't conform, that will become the general consensus, thus uniform being the thing that doesn't conform, so it's possible for students to revolt.

Anyway, under Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, it states that "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression", so there is clear injustice with not allowing that flag to be worn. It merely is a personal disagreement of an executive of the school, rather than universal.
 
Like David said, schools should have enough control in order to keep schools a peaceful, safe environment for the students. Dress codes are ok to a certain extent, but really should not differ much from dress codes you might find elsewhere. For example, you obviously shouldn't go to work in a bikini, same goes for school.

Schools, however, take it way beyond their power. The high school I attended, for instance, banned all colored shoe laces due to them being "gang related." That's a ridiculous enough statement on its own, but add into the fact that out all of the schools in the area mine was the most well-behaved and academically successful then you start seeing the real problem.

The ABSOLUTE WORST rule that that damn school had was just implemented last year (my senior year). No cell phones, mp3 players, or electronic devices of any kind can be used on school grounds during school hours. Ever. The kicker? If it is confiscated and taken to the office, your parent must come in and personally pay a fee of $15 in order to get it back. That should be f'ing illegal.
 
Hobbies230 said:
The ABSOLUTE WORST rule that that damn school had was just implemented last year (my senior year). No cell phones, mp3 players, or electronic devices of any kind can be used on school grounds during school hours. Ever. The kicker? If it is confiscated and taken to the office, your parent must come in and personally pay a fee of $15 in order to get it back. That should be f'ing illegal.
That's going a little far on 2 levels. A computer is an electronic device, and some students may find it easier to take notes via the computer rather than hand as they may not be quick enough. It would be ridiculous to ban devices which have equal potential to benefit the student. The $15 thing would be illegal in Australia. A public school cannot impose a fine.
 
I don't care about not being able to use a laptop because kids wouldn't be using it for notes, they'd be using it for Facebook, games, etc. But to not allow us to use so much as our MP3 players even during LUNCH? What the hell purpose does that serve other than to piss us off?
 
Yeah hobbies my junior high school was like that, but my high school lets you use phones and MP3 anywhere but in the classrooms. It's ok in the hallway or cafeteria, just not in an actual class.

And the fact that they charge your parents 15 dollars is illegal if you're a public school. If you're in a private school, different story.
 
DavidL said:
Hobbies230 said:
The ABSOLUTE WORST rule that that damn school had was just implemented last year (my senior year). No cell phones, mp3 players, or electronic devices of any kind can be used on school grounds during school hours. Ever. The kicker? If it is confiscated and taken to the office, your parent must come in and personally pay a fee of $15 in order to get it back. That should be f'ing illegal.
That's going a little far on 2 levels. A computer is an electronic device, and some students may find it easier to take notes via the computer rather than hand as they may not be quick enough. It would be ridiculous to ban devices which have equal potential to benefit the student. The $15 thing would be illegal in Australia. A public school cannot impose a fine.
I think Hobbies is in high school, and not many high schools allow the use of laptops.
But the $15 fine is ridiculous. Take them to court.
 
Yeah agreed I think students shouldn't be able to walk around with laptops in school lol
 
Kirisute Gomen said:
DavidL said:
Hobbies230 said:
The ABSOLUTE WORST rule that that damn school had was just implemented last year (my senior year). No cell phones, mp3 players, or electronic devices of any kind can be used on school grounds during school hours. Ever. The kicker? If it is confiscated and taken to the office, your parent must come in and personally pay a fee of $15 in order to get it back. That should be f'ing illegal.
That's going a little far on 2 levels. A computer is an electronic device, and some students may find it easier to take notes via the computer rather than hand as they may not be quick enough. It would be ridiculous to ban devices which have equal potential to benefit the student. The $15 thing would be illegal in Australia. A public school cannot impose a fine.
I think Hobbies is in high school, and not many high schools allow the use of laptops.
But the $15 fine is ridiculous. Take them to court.
That's pathetic. The Australian Government rolled out a Laptop (NoteBook) Plan, giving a laptops to every Year 9 student (so 3rd year into Secondary School). It almost certainly encourages the use of laptops.
 
DavidL said:
Kirisute Gomen said:
DavidL said:
Hobbies230 said:
The ABSOLUTE WORST rule that that damn school had was just implemented last year (my senior year). No cell phones, mp3 players, or electronic devices of any kind can be used on school grounds during school hours. Ever. The kicker? If it is confiscated and taken to the office, your parent must come in and personally pay a fee of $15 in order to get it back. That should be f'ing illegal.
That's going a little far on 2 levels. A computer is an electronic device, and some students may find it easier to take notes via the computer rather than hand as they may not be quick enough. It would be ridiculous to ban devices which have equal potential to benefit the student. The $15 thing would be illegal in Australia. A public school cannot impose a fine.
I think Hobbies is in high school, and not many high schools allow the use of laptops.
But the $15 fine is ridiculous. Take them to court.
That's pathetic. The Australian Government rolled out a Laptop (NoteBook) Plan, giving a laptops to every Year 9 student (so 3rd year into Secondary School). It almost certainly encourages the use of laptops.
While I see the use, I do not think it would be a good use in public schools. There are times where internet is helpful, and very educational in a classroom, however it would get misused.
 
Kirisute Gomen said:
I think Hobbies is in high school, and not many high schools allow the use of laptops.
But the $15 fine is ridiculous. Take them to court.
Not in high school anymore, but it was a rule that my high school implemented my senior year. It was ridiculous, but I wasn't going to waste my time fighting a battle that I'd probably lose.

David, trust me, if they allowed kids in my high school to use laptops half the school wouldn't ever get anything done. Not a big deal, though; laptops wouldn't have increased my classroom efficiency, though I guess that's matter of opinion.
 
Hobbies230 said:
Kirisute Gomen said:
I think Hobbies is in high school, and not many high schools allow the use of laptops.
But the $15 fine is ridiculous. Take them to court.
Not in high school anymore, but it was a rule that my high school implemented my senior year. It was ridiculous, but I wasn't going to waste my time fighting a battle that I'd probably lose.

David, trust me, if they allowed kids in my high school to use laptops half the school wouldn't ever get anything done. Not a big deal, though; laptops wouldn't have increased my classroom efficiency, though I guess that's matter of opinion.

I think you're forgetting the point of government servers and their Internet access restriction. From what I recall, sites like Facebook are blocked from public school servers, so no, students would not be on Facebook because it would be impossible via public school servers.

Also, I'm guessing there is a different morale of education in America (or just your school) with your view of students "wouldn't be using it for notes" instead Facebook. I think that shows a lack of discipline and self control of the use of Internet, and at certain times. Lunch time would be far more appropriate for the use of leisure electronics, and would be rarely used during class.
 
First off, I should probably point out that I've been going to a private school for 13 years, and before this year (first in college) I have been wearing uniforms to school since 1st grade. However, my take on the public school dress code is this: personally, I think the only things that should be restricted are revealing clothing and t-shirts with bad words or violent messages or pictures on them.

However, all schools have legal custody of children while they are in school. Of course, this doesn't mean that that should be taken advantage of and used to control the students in whatever way the schools want.

DavidL said:
Also, I'm guessing there is a different morale of education in America (or just your school) with your view of students "wouldn't be using it for notes" instead Facebook. I think that shows a lack of discipline and self control of the use of Internet, and at certain times. Lunch time would be far more appropriate for the use of leisure electronics, and would be rarely used during class.
In terms of cell phones and the internet, I found myself perfectly capable of going through high school without having to text all through class. In my opinion, you're wasting your time, the class's time, and the teacher's time if you're texting all day, every day. Having seen people text during class, it is kind of distracting, and I can tell I'm not the only one who feels that way.

In college, people basically do whatever they want. Sure, I pop on facebook occasionally during class if I have my laptop out. But I usually do this in the moments before class actually starts. As far as high school went, we weren't allowed laptops (not that internet would have been a problem considering there's no wireless...). If we used a school computer, all social networking sites were blocked.
 
DavidL said:
I think you're forgetting the point of government servers and their Internet access restriction. From what I recall, sites like Facebook are blocked from public school servers, so no, students would not be on Facebook because it would be impossible via public school servers.

Also, I'm guessing there is a different morale of education in America (or just your school) with your view of students "wouldn't be using it for notes" instead Facebook. I think that shows a lack of discipline and self control of the use of Internet, and at certain times. Lunch time would be far more appropriate for the use of leisure electronics, and would be rarely used during class.
There are many ways around site blocks, which kids would use on school computers anyway, so give them the freedom to use laptops then we have a real problem.

But you're most certainly right about the lack of discipline and self control. I'm not going to stereotype, but you very well might be right that the problem is worse here in America than where you live.
 
DavidL said:
Hobbies230 said:
Kirisute Gomen said:
I think Hobbies is in high school, and not many high schools allow the use of laptops.
But the $15 fine is ridiculous. Take them to court.
Not in high school anymore, but it was a rule that my high school implemented my senior year. It was ridiculous, but I wasn't going to waste my time fighting a battle that I'd probably lose.

David, trust me, if they allowed kids in my high school to use laptops half the school wouldn't ever get anything done. Not a big deal, though; laptops wouldn't have increased my classroom efficiency, though I guess that's matter of opinion.

I think you're forgetting the point of government servers and their Internet access restriction. From what I recall, sites like Facebook are blocked from public school servers, so no, students would not be on Facebook because it would be impossible via public school servers.

Also, I'm guessing there is a different morale of education in America (or just your school) with your view of students "wouldn't be using it for notes" instead Facebook. I think that shows a lack of discipline and self control of the use of Internet, and at certain times. Lunch time would be far more appropriate for the use of leisure electronics, and would be rarely used during class.
I hate to say it but you're terribly wrong. The school tries to block all the game sites and social networking sites but we all find ways around them. We all spent the whole period of the state mandated computer course on facebook and games. Just because the school blocks it doesn't mean you can't get around the blocks.
 
State mandated computer course? I did not have to take one...
 
Hobbies230 said:
There are many ways around site blocks, which kids would use on school computers anyway, so give them the freedom to use laptops then we have a real problem.

obama hates santa said:
I hate to say it but you're terribly wrong. The school tries to block all the game sites and social networking sites but we all find ways around them. We all spent the whole period of the state mandated computer course on facebook and games. Just because the school blocks it doesn't mean you can't get around the blocks.

As much as you two can ramble on about finding ways around them, I can safely say that the security in Australian public schools is quite high, and I can say with a high level of certainty that the servers cannot be bypassed by the general consensus, without going to the source. There may be one student, but once it's bypassed, it triggers a notice to the main computer administrator alerting of the bypass, and then that is brought to higher levels. Irviding, you may say I'm terribly wrong, but that's through your experience. If the American Internet infrastructure is not up to scratch, then I'm not at fault with my statement. I can assure you that getting on Facebook through public school servers is impossible; every measure to restrict student access would be taken.
 

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