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5 Disciplinary Actions You Can Take Before Banning Community Members
- Thread starter Ghost
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Shadow bans...I heard of that once before but I don't know which forums actually have used it. Is it built into most software or is that an add on?
I know the article is about discipline but there is a way to help the user instead of just reprimanding him...mentoring. If a site truly enjoys having their members around, they want those members to learn what type of posting styles are acceptable and that can be done through private conversations with the member. Now if that member is defiant (and a lot of them are because they don't see they're doing anything wrong) then the discipline action along with mentoring such as putting him on mod queue while maintaining talks can help.
Not everyone realizes that they come off in an unacceptable way. That can be due to culture or just the way the family unit communicated while the member was growing up. When I was growing up no one took responsibility and ALWAYS blamed anything that went wrong on someone else. It takes a long time to get out of those bad habits. Mentoring can help that. Mentoring can help the member to actually see how their posting is not effective and offer up better ways to write what they want to say.
I had a member who was calling other "liars!" and saying "you lie" in almost every post. I asked the member for a definition of liar and do you know it took about 6 pages worth of posts to get the member to actually give me a definition. I had to be patient and hear out all the complaining about other members first...because the member couldn't understand why everyone else was doing wrong to him. In the end my mentoring failed but that isn't always the case. Sometimes I succeed in helping someone to reword what they want to say so that there is more harmony on the site. And that's a nice end goal..harmony.
I know the article is about discipline but there is a way to help the user instead of just reprimanding him...mentoring. If a site truly enjoys having their members around, they want those members to learn what type of posting styles are acceptable and that can be done through private conversations with the member. Now if that member is defiant (and a lot of them are because they don't see they're doing anything wrong) then the discipline action along with mentoring such as putting him on mod queue while maintaining talks can help.
Not everyone realizes that they come off in an unacceptable way. That can be due to culture or just the way the family unit communicated while the member was growing up. When I was growing up no one took responsibility and ALWAYS blamed anything that went wrong on someone else. It takes a long time to get out of those bad habits. Mentoring can help that. Mentoring can help the member to actually see how their posting is not effective and offer up better ways to write what they want to say.
I had a member who was calling other "liars!" and saying "you lie" in almost every post. I asked the member for a definition of liar and do you know it took about 6 pages worth of posts to get the member to actually give me a definition. I had to be patient and hear out all the complaining about other members first...because the member couldn't understand why everyone else was doing wrong to him. In the end my mentoring failed but that isn't always the case. Sometimes I succeed in helping someone to reword what they want to say so that there is more harmony on the site. And that's a nice end goal..harmony.
I agree with a lot of what you wrote! Obviously mentoring can go a long way, as can just simple messages here and there as reminders. These are obviously all for when a consequence of some sort is needed, but they shouldn't be the first reaction of every admin. Lam is right - There are many steps you can take to help a member be a part of your forum before even a warning is needed.
I like what you said about people just being unaware of how they are perceived, or people misunderstanding others on the forum. It's a shame when people need a lot of guidance and hand holding, but it can be worth the time and effort to help someone understand their actions and why people treat them a certain way. Sometimes general awareness can go a long way in not only forums, but in life too. I like to believe that forum owners and staff have the ability to shape some minds on and off the internet, so nobody should ever sacrifice their good human nature & instincts just because a punishment is easier to hand out. Students don't warn, ban, or suspend people from the lunch table and for the most part they survive throughout the year - even with disagreements, falling outs, etc. This should definitely be taken into account... everyone is human and talking it out can often be the best solution.
Shadow bans are usually added in to a forum with a plugin. There have been a few created over the years, but I am not sure if every software has a current up to date plugin available... I just know I have seen it a few times. I don't think I ever experienced it myself, but I have come across a few people who have been shadow banned & then came back under new accounts after realizing they were shadow banned for weeks/months/year+
I like what you said about people just being unaware of how they are perceived, or people misunderstanding others on the forum. It's a shame when people need a lot of guidance and hand holding, but it can be worth the time and effort to help someone understand their actions and why people treat them a certain way. Sometimes general awareness can go a long way in not only forums, but in life too. I like to believe that forum owners and staff have the ability to shape some minds on and off the internet, so nobody should ever sacrifice their good human nature & instincts just because a punishment is easier to hand out. Students don't warn, ban, or suspend people from the lunch table and for the most part they survive throughout the year - even with disagreements, falling outs, etc. This should definitely be taken into account... everyone is human and talking it out can often be the best solution.
Shadow bans are usually added in to a forum with a plugin. There have been a few created over the years, but I am not sure if every software has a current up to date plugin available... I just know I have seen it a few times. I don't think I ever experienced it myself, but I have come across a few people who have been shadow banned & then came back under new accounts after realizing they were shadow banned for weeks/months/year+
I can see pros and cons of shadow bans. I'd love to hear first hand experience (of being the banner or receiver of these) to learn more because I would want to know if it helped the community in the long run really...or if when other members found out it hurt it because it's a somewhat deceptive practice allowing someone to think that everything is normal when it's not.
Mmm, yeah you're definitely right that it could spark a negative reaction from some users. The issue is if they log out, they can go see if they are shadow banned. For this reason, many sites most likely do not publicize the fact that they use shadow bans. I still believe it's a good option for users you don't want around, especially if they have evaded bans in the past / have multiple accounts.
I often check sites without logging and and like to see if anyone replied to my posts/threads so it's something I would catch right away. I would feel betrayed by the staff on that site.
The more I think about it, the more I am believing that maybe a shadow ban should only be reserved for people who ban-evade. Because you're right, it's one thing to be banned and told what you did wrong so you can grow as a person, and another to be completely ignored (by the system's shadow ban) while you continue doing whatever it is you do.
So, in hindsight perhaps shadow banning shouldn't be on this list specifically. I may remove it or add to it by saying it should be reserved for people who you know will evade the ban. That was the main point anyways, but it also is great for spammers. A lot of times the spam bots will just generate new accounts if they are banned, but shadow banning can let the bot believe it's running as normal so they won't attempt to sign up under a new IP/account.
I wouldn't remove it from the list...just add the disclaimer. You got me thinking about it though because part of me would love to use it even though that's my evil angel sitting on my left shoulder prodding me to do so hehe.
Yes indeed, it is the evil side of ya!
It might be a bit malicious, but it's been done enough to clearly work for some scenarios. Perhaps it could be taken a step further by allowing the public to see the posts/threads, but not allowing logged in members to see them... so if they log out, they can see they have received 0 replies on their public post, but no logged in user can ever see it? Mmm, we might be on to something Lam.
In all seriousness though, I think I will add a disclaimer to it tomorrow. I need to hop off FP for some work things & then Friday evening 🙂
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