Kevin X Dragon
Paragon
Nuke said:
About what? Also do you have proof to back that up?
Is obama a socialist?
- Thread starter agentmanningctu
- Start date
About what? Also do you have proof to back that up?
Irviding said:
Thanks to Reaganomics we had the over 20 years of sustained economic growth. Reaganomics got us out of the deep recession that Carter left us in. There are only a couple of use in this thread that remember the long gas lines , rationing of fuel, wage/price controls, double digit unemployment, and almost 20% interest on mortgages that came Carters administration.
Reaganomics was simple. Give people that had business the freedom from high taxes and less government interference to grow their business, start new ones and hire more people. The more jobs available means more money circulating through the economy. More opportunities for everyone. Better jobs for everyone. Better pay so you can make a better life for yourself and your family. This is true wealth distribution that last. Not this tax the rich, take from me to give to you bs that the liberals love. I have no problem helping the poor, I believe we have a duty to . But it's not the governments job, and they do it so wastefully. I know for a fact churches and private charities do more in my community to help left people up than the government does. People don't need handouts. The liberals tell them "here depend on the government, you can't do it on your own".. That is insulting to everyone. There are some programs like adult education , job placement...ect. that are good. But the rest of this "tax me to give to you " does nothing for either one of us.
Listen... I never said we have a perfect healthcare system. We never will until we're in heaven. There are several things that can be done to lower cost, make insurance cheaper and more available with better coverage, and raise the incentive of development of better treatment.
But if you think a total takeover of the insurance industry by the government ( the most wasteful institution in the USA) is going to fix this problem I will use the recent stimulus attempt (started by Bush) as an example. Trillions of Dollars invested in this and we are approaching 10% unemployment, Almost 40% loss in the stock market. Layoffs everyday....ect. All they did was put the breaks on the economy. Just wait till the dollar bottoms out because of the money the are printing to pay for all this. The government never does anything efficiently.
But if you think a total takeover of the insurance industry by the government ( the most wasteful institution in the USA) is going to fix this problem I will use the recent stimulus attempt (started by Bush) as an example. Trillions of Dollars invested in this and we are approaching 10% unemployment, Almost 40% loss in the stock market. Layoffs everyday....ect. All they did was put the breaks on the economy. Just wait till the dollar bottoms out because of the money the are printing to pay for all this. The government never does anything efficiently.
Let's see...
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/cancer ... nclusions/
Cancer survival rates going down when you go to nazi (Or national socialist) healthcare must mean the quality gets worse, right?
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/cancer ... nclusions/
Cancer survival rates going down when you go to nazi (Or national socialist) healthcare must mean the quality gets worse, right?
Yes.....let's see what the "Factcheck" article says:
"It’s certainly the case that we have higher survival rates than the United Kingdom and other countries with nationalized health care. Across the board, the United States boasts a higher five-year relative survival rate than the European average, according to a 2008 study in the British medical journal Lancet. For breast cancer, for instance, the U.S. survival rate was 83.9 percent, the U.K. rate was 69.7, and the average European rate was 73.1."
"It’s certainly the case that we have higher survival rates than the United Kingdom and other countries with nationalized health care. Across the board, the United States boasts a higher five-year relative survival rate than the European average, according to a 2008 study in the British medical journal Lancet. For breast cancer, for instance, the U.S. survival rate was 83.9 percent, the U.K. rate was 69.7, and the average European rate was 73.1."
There is one thing that I said that I would like to apologize for and that is calling these other nations "lesser nations". That was pampas and arrogant of me to say. We as people were all created by the same God and all deserve each others respect. Though I was not speaking on the people themselves , I was speaking of leadership of their countries.
Kevin X Dragon
Paragon
Nuke said:
I have to go to school so I will read that when i come back. Also just because cancer survival rates are low on different countries doesn't mean we have better health care. I was talking about average but your only talking about cancer.
Stogi said:
Carter was an awful president, as you've stated, but Reagan was just down-right corrupt. Then again, so was Carter. The truth is, a lot of the things that were put in place during the Carter admin, were kept, and expanded on during the Reagan admin.
Here we are talking about two wealth based individuals who's policies revolved around the wealthy.
But I'm going to address Reagan, since he's the guy you're talking about.
Stogi said:
He didn't just give them tax breaks, he set the stage for eliminating most of their taxes altogether.
By the 1990's, a middle class family earning around 37,800 a year, was paying 7.65 percent of it's income in Social Security taxes, a family earning about 10 times that, only paid 1.46 percent of it's income in SS taxes.
Reagan wasn't just for businesses, he was for anyone who was wealthy, period.
A CEO of a corporation made about 40 times as much as a factory worker in 1980, in 1989, they were making 93 times as much.
The before-tax income of poorest two-fifths declined between the years of 1977 and 1989, while it rose 77 percent for the richest one percent.
I could go on and on and on just by looking in one history book.
Here's one of your quotes.
"Not this tax the rich, take from me to give to you bs that the liberals love."
Yeah, we shouldn't tax the rich, they deserve yachts, and sports cars, and buildings named after themselves. They deserve tax breaks, and pay raises, and less regulations. You never cease to amaze me with the things you come up with. The rich have the ability to pay more taxes.
In ratio of earnings to payments, poor people during the Reagan admin, paid more money on taxes than the top one percent, that "BS" as you called it, is what I like to call, common courtesy to those who can't pay what others can. If the super rich had to pay 20 percent on SS taxes, it would hardly do a thing to them, cause there is so little that they can't afford.
"Better jobs for everyone. Better pay so you can make a better life for yourself and your family."
That has the vague possibility of working if the rich would actually give better pay, but they don't, they keep their earnings to make more profit. Why give better pay when you get a tax break, when you can not give better pay, and earn another billion?
Nuke said:
Did you read the whole thing? I noticed a few things that you probably didn't see.
"The American Cancer Society found that the five-year survival rates for colorectal cancer averaged 63 percent for the privately insured but 49 percent for the uninsured."
And
"Survival rates in Canada, Japan, Australia and Cuba were all comparable to or higher than U.S. survival rates on all types of cancer that the Lancet study examined, except for prostate cancer. Those countries all have some form of government-provided health care coverage."
These two statements prove what I've been saying about health care in and of themselves.
Stogi said:
Well I haven't read through this thread (because there is way too much writing lol), but my personal opinion on America's policies and what not is that America is just full of Drama, thinking they "own" this world etc, if you ask me I reckon another Country will take over soon because im pretty sure everyone is sick of it.
Thats my opinion, I don't even know if it's on topic or not..
This being said I don't hate America/Americans and whatever.
Silentflesh
Paragon
Oaerkae said:
Dang! You won...
The rich do pay way more taxes than the poor even the middle class. I see it every tax session. You have a person with 5 kids working for $10.00 per hour for example. After the earned income credit,child credit , deductions for this and that they get back 4 times what they paid in. While their rich boss has had to pay half their S.S. taxes, half their medicaid taxes all off his business taxes and so on. When you spout taxes rates they don't mean crap at the bottom line. The tax law has turned into another wealth distribution tool of the government and the Dem. & Rep. both are to be blamed for it. I will give another example of this. I will use myself as an example. I fall in the 40-50 thousand a year range. With using just the standard deductions alone on my tax return on the bottom line I get back more than I paid in. I'm not rich by no means with 2 kids and a family to take care of. You guys will understand that at your age , though very intelligent, you are not seeing the whole picture.
You just see what you teachers and the media is feeding you.
But anyway all this being way off topic Obama :evil: is still a Socialist....lol :rofl:
You just see what you teachers and the media is feeding you.
But anyway all this being way off topic Obama :evil: is still a Socialist....lol :rofl:
Stogi said:
Well, yeah, now you do, cause Obama is in office. I was talking about Reagan.
Well of course they do, they own a business, that's part of owning a business. Although there are exceptions to that, Wal-Mart for example. But never mind that... what about a person who makes 390k a year, and doesn't own a business?
The point of those tax rates was to show you that Reagan was not just trying to make it easier for businesses, he was giving them more breaks than they needed, breaks that could of been used to keep taxes low for those who can't pay for taxes.
The wealthiest 1 percent owns 40 percent of the country's wealth, but it is these people that Reagan catered to. It didn't matter if they owned a business at all, if they were rich, they got breaks. Obama is the first president ever to raise taxes on the rich. So the way Reagan used to fix the Economy may of worked, but he used the way most designed toward the "special interest". Clinton did it, Hoover did it, everyone... except Obama, and they're already whining about it.
I understand the whole bottom line thing, and I could go on about that, but that wasn't what I was talking about. You made the claim that Reagan was just helping the poor rich business owners, but he wasn't, he was catering to them, and ignoring the lower class.
Stogi said:
First off, I'm home-schooled, I've taught myself what I know about politics by basic reading, teachers wouldn't talk about this kind of stuff. And as for the media, they don't always talk about these kind of figures.
Listen, you can say he's socialist all you want, but you are not a socialist... I am, so it stands to reason that I'd know a wee bit more about it than you. 😉
I personally wish Obama was more socialistic, but unfortunately, he isn't.
Well...let's see...
Obama's FCC guy wants to force limits on conservative talk radio, which works by ratings like TV.
His former Green Jobs czar was a racist, saying "You have never seen a black child do a columbine (kill everyone in school)."
Besides, you hate all republicans, just because they're conservative.
Obama's FCC guy wants to force limits on conservative talk radio, which works by ratings like TV.
His former Green Jobs czar was a racist, saying "You have never seen a black child do a columbine (kill everyone in school)."
Besides, you hate all republicans, just because they're conservative.
Nuke said:
Yeah, cause we all know conservatism is a somatic essence of the person. :roll:
I don't hate republicans because of conservatism, I hate greedy bastards that enjoy making a profit at other people's expense. If conservatives are those greedy bastards, then there's a reason I dislike them, I personally don't think conservatives are naturally greedy, but some, like Reagan, choose to be.
Whatever Obama's FCC guy wants is off limits, even if it's true, Obama isn't going to let something like that happen.
And note the two things about your seconds statement, the word "Former", and the fact the Obama's G J czar isn't Obama. Obama is not responsible for every thought of every person that he has ever come in contact with.
Is this the only things you can come up with against Obama? "Guilt by association"....
Obama has nothing to do with the tax rate we live under right now...and just because someone is Republican doesn't mean they are conservative. There are more moderates in the party than anything. They may have ran on a conservative platform but once they got their foot in the door they got corrupted by the political games that they play in Washington. I personally blame allot of where we are on the poor leadership of Bush. I believe he was very strong and made the right decisions when it came to protecting this country after 911. But, his fiscal leadership was way off. He was the one that started this stimulus bs and allowed Barny Frank and all those folks to set up policies through committees that led to the housing industry to fail. Clinton allowed it to start but Bush allowed it to carry on. The cheap loans to people who could not afford to pay them ruined the housing industry and the ripple effects are still being felt through out the economy. I say all this to prove the point that not all republicans are true conservatives. If they were we wouldn't have near the economical demise we do. Obama has no plan to bring on a economic recovery. He says he does but like all the politicians if his lips are moving he is blowing smoke up you rear. Yes.. he fills his rhetoric with the truth on a certain level, but, when you get to the details of what he really wants to do , his words never matches his actions.
Oaerkae.... I can tell you, like most the home schooled , are very intelligent. You are just mis guided in you conclusions. I'll say it again, I thought the same way you did. I thought it was unfair for the "Rich" to get all the breaks. I thought just because a man lives in a life of luxury that he was taking something away from someone else. I learned I was short changing myself. For me to think that it was unfair for someone to live lavishly while I worked my butt off just to get by meant that I didn't believe in myself . Just because one person has allot does not mean there is less left over for someone else. That is simply not true. There is a unlimited amount of wealth to be grown. You grow wealth through investments, production, and consumption. Not by taxing and spending. The government does not produce one single thing, it just consumes. I cannot get one thing by government tax someone else more. I get it by hard work and my own ingenuity. This class envy crap is only hurting you and clouding your judgment. I know that I cannot change your way of thinking being you are dead set on socialism being the way to go. Just remember the things I have told .
Oaerkae.... I can tell you, like most the home schooled , are very intelligent. You are just mis guided in you conclusions. I'll say it again, I thought the same way you did. I thought it was unfair for the "Rich" to get all the breaks. I thought just because a man lives in a life of luxury that he was taking something away from someone else. I learned I was short changing myself. For me to think that it was unfair for someone to live lavishly while I worked my butt off just to get by meant that I didn't believe in myself . Just because one person has allot does not mean there is less left over for someone else. That is simply not true. There is a unlimited amount of wealth to be grown. You grow wealth through investments, production, and consumption. Not by taxing and spending. The government does not produce one single thing, it just consumes. I cannot get one thing by government tax someone else more. I get it by hard work and my own ingenuity. This class envy crap is only hurting you and clouding your judgment. I know that I cannot change your way of thinking being you are dead set on socialism being the way to go. Just remember the things I have told .
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