Justifying torture

[Bossanova]

In mostly all areas, torture is illegal. Lets look at a scenario. A bomber has planted bombs in a residential area. If the bombs go off, hundreds of people will die. The bomber was caught, and is being detained. The bomber is refusing to talk, and has asked for a lawyer. One of the officers suggested they torture the man either by torturing him, or bringing in his wife and torturing him that way.

Is torture justifiable if it helps saves hundreds of people?

I think, if you have the balls to plant bombs, with the intent to kill people, then you deserve to be tortured. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for torture being illegal, HOWEVER, torture can be justified if it saves hundreds of lives.

 

[Saruman]

If torture means the saving of even one person, I'm all for it. :great:

 

[YourMaster]

I think, if you have the balls to plant bombs, with the intent to kill people, then you deserve to be tortured. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for torture being illegal, HOWEVER, torture can be justified if it saves hundreds of lives.

That's a good point and I agree however in the world we live in today I can see officers or anyone in a power position abusing this law.

In my opinion, torture is a very unreliable tool. A man will most likely understand that for the pain to stop he needs to say the right things. ( Likely what his aggressors what to hear ) This can lead to many people being incarcerated or tortured by mistake...

-YourMaster

 

[Saruman]

The day terrorists stop torturing our men and women, is the day I'll run down the street naked, backwards, barefoot, in the snow, up hill, both ways!

Untill then... .50cal and bunkerbust them and their families all day long! :great:

 

[YourMaster]

The day terrorists stop torturing our men and women, is the day I'll run down the street naked, backwards, barefoot, in the snow, up hill, both ways!

Untill then... .50cal and bunkerbust them and their families all day long! :great:

Yes more violence will definitely solve the problem. What a typical stereotypical humanoid answer...

 

[Dasher]

Why'd you have to put the American in there? I take offense to that.

 

[YourMaster]

Why'd you have to put the American in there? I take offense to that.

Your right, I shouldn't have. I apologize to you or anyone else I might have offended. I was simply trying to prove a point and used the wrong wording.

 

[Dasher]

It's not just a Stereotypical American answer. More or less as it is a stereotypical answer in it's self. Look back in time, when then Nazi's we're killing Jewish people because they weren't white. We joined up with Britain (I may be wrong on that), France, Canada, etc. So it's basically a stereotypical mankind answer. That's all we've done throughout history, is fight fire with fire.

 

[Saruman]

Well, I agree we should have "peace-minded" thinking individuals.
This world is F*$K up! We live in a world, where badguys don't play by the "rules."
I hope all our soldiers make terroists, and eveyone else that shoots at them, suffer to the 10th degree, and show them no mercy.

No mercy should be shown to any enemy that threatens the world and other nations with verbal and physical threats.

Those who try to jam down our throats with "peace be with you", is living in a fantasy world, it ain't gonna happen, as long as terrorists are running amok, and I hope each and everyone of them is like I said earlier... .50calibered and bunkerbusted straight to their alla! :great:

 

[Bossanova]

Alright, enough of the "American" racist type stuff. This topic isn't about what happens in war, it's if torture can be justified.

 

[YourMaster]

I take a very different approach, violence up to now in this war has had very limited success. I don't see how terrorist got in this argument, but I don't understand your point of view. From what I hear the army seems to be the one using torture against them.... I'm not saying what they do is right, and they don't deserve it but the army doesn't have clean hands either.

Those who try to jam down our throats with "peace be with you", is living in a fantasy world, it ain't gonna happen, as long as terrorists are running amok, and I hope each and everyone of them is like I said earlier... .50calibered and bunkerbusted straight to their alla! :great:

I believe it's the other way around. Peace ain't going to happen with people believing that war is the right way to go and killing everyone is alright as long as a war is declared.

-YourMaster

 

[cityStatic]

Nazi's we're killing Jewish people because they weren't white.

... :lol:

Yes, that's very true. :shake:

 

[Watch Me Sink]

Saruman, despite your atrocious spelling of Allah, and stereotypical mindset, your arguement is seriously flawed. "[V]erbal and physical theats" you said. So if a fictitous African-American leader of a well devloped nation were to say to a fictitous leader of a socialized nation in east Asia "If you don't stop devloping nuclear weapons, you will have a serious price to pay," would torture of the African-American man be justified?
(Figure out the analogy for yourself)

While I'm not a big fan of torture, the ends justify the means.

 

[NBK*Twitch]

It's not just a Stereotypical American answer. More or less as it is a stereotypical answer in it's self. Look back in time, when then Nazi's we're killing Jewish people because they weren't white. We joined up with Britain (I may be wrong on that), France, Canada, etc. So it's basically a stereotypical mankind answer. That's all we've done throughout history, is fight fire with fire.

Uhmm nooo The Nazis were killing the jewish people due to their religon. Not all jews are black <.<.

 

[agentmanningctu]

As proven by Jack Bauer, torture = answers fast. (As you can plainly see in my siggy)

 

[Watch Me Sink]

It's not just a Stereotypical American answer. More or less as it is a stereotypical answer in it's self. Look back in time, when then Nazi's we're killing Jewish people because they weren't white. We joined up with Britain (I may be wrong on that), France, Canada, etc. So it's basically a stereotypical mankind answer. That's all we've done throughout history, is fight fire with fire.

Uhmm nooo The Nazis were killing the jewish people due to their religon. Not all jews are black <.<.

In fact, very little Jews are black.

As proven by Jack Bauer, torture = answers fast. (As you can plainly see in my siggy)

But the real world is not a parallel to 24. Do you know how many times Bauer broke protocol over all the seasons? He held the President of the United States hostage once.

 

[Dasher]

It's not just a Stereotypical American answer. More or less as it is a stereotypical answer in it's self. Look back in time, when then Nazi's we're killing Jewish people because they weren't white. We joined up with Britain (I may be wrong on that), France, Canada, etc. So it's basically a stereotypical mankind answer. That's all we've done throughout history, is fight fire with fire.

Uhmm nooo The Nazis were killing the jewish people due to their religon. Not all jews are black <.<.

I never said they were black, he killed them because they weren't white.

 

[Watch Me Sink]

It's not just a Stereotypical American answer. More or less as it is a stereotypical answer in it's self. Look back in time, when then Nazi's we're killing Jewish people because they weren't white. We joined up with Britain (I may be wrong on that), France, Canada, etc. So it's basically a stereotypical mankind answer. That's all we've done throughout history, is fight fire with fire.

Uhmm nooo The Nazis were killing the jewish people due to their religon. Not all jews are black <.<.

I never said they were black, he killed them because they weren't white.

He killed then because he thought they were an inferior race. 😉

 

[Oaerkae]

Although I haven't really had time to keep posting here, I have to respond to this topic.

Torture is never justifiable, ever. You can throw around that crap about it working better, about it "saving" lives, and that it is a good technique for getting answers.

Torture is about one thing and one thing only, vengeance, it is not about saving lives, or protecting people, it's about revenge, and making someone suffer for the things they may have done. It is a premature, infantile, and pathetic attempt to control a situation we feel is out of our control.

When I was young, there was a much older kid that took a toy of mine, he was taller and he stood over me and hung it above my head so I couldn't get it. I finally got so mad I leaped on him and started pounding on him. I got my toy back, but what did I achieve from hitting him, I made myself angry, I probably humiliated him, and I could of gotten my toy back my asking nicely, or telling my mother.

Some people will say that my analogy is off scale. That I'm putting into a conversation a comparison that isn't even comparable. But it is.
Why is it?... One reason... the moment I put my hands on him, I lost the right to consider myself as being on the right side. I was young, and the idea of right and wrong were blurry at best. But I was still able to consider myself as being justified in beating him up.

Are any of you five years old? No you aren't, you are older, people that consider themselves beyond that childish emotion and instinct. But the moment you decide to use that primitive way of control, you lost whatever claim you had to being justified.

Now let us say the police suspect that a person has planted a bomb in a heavily populated building.
Is torturing him justified? No, it isn't. It is morally wrong, there is a possibility that the suspect is innocent, and there is no guarantee that any information you get from him will be correct, he could stall you until the bomb goes off, then he goes to prison, and you don't torture him.

Here are two quotes from Gandhi that explain my point of view. "I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent."
And, "Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary."

Wow, torture doesn't look so great now eh?

 

[Dasher]

It's not just a Stereotypical American answer. More or less as it is a stereotypical answer in it's self. Look back in time, when then Nazi's we're killing Jewish people because they weren't white. We joined up with Britain (I may be wrong on that), France, Canada, etc. So it's basically a stereotypical mankind answer. That's all we've done throughout history, is fight fire with fire.

Uhmm nooo The Nazis were killing the jewish people due to their religon. Not all jews are black <.<.

I never said they were black, he killed them because they weren't white.

He killed then because he thought they were an inferior race. 😉

But he thought that Caucasians were the superior race. ;D