PageRank

[Rich Edmonds]

Actually THT is wrong... THT stated that PR doesn't effect SERPs what so ever even though it's been *proven* that it does, sure some sites with a low PR may outrank a domain with a high PR but if you look around, it's rare. 😉

what do you mean "it's rare"? Have you actually searched for every term and have saved all results to compare between? Didn't think so. I'll fire you an example, a client we started with had a brand new website and of course had a PR of 0. They began ranking in the first page above other sites who had higher PR. So in effect, PR does not mean you rank high for keywords, which is what you basically stated. It hasn't been proven that PR affects SERPs entirely. It's been proven that PR is taken into account within the algorithm when sorting websites and is mainly used to show how Google views your website.

I'll agree that a high PR isn't the only main factor in SERPs but it *does* help and anyone who says it doesn't is a fool!

I say it has little impact, are you saying I'm a fool when I work within this world day in day out?

- age of the domain.
Yes, that's a factor but that's also why they sell for a high price and I don't see anyone around here going to buy a 9 year old domain for like $60 ...

Didn't say they would, I was providing factors that are taken into account by any search engine to rank a website.

- Links to other sites.
A good factor but guess what!?! Linking to other sites lowers your PR and is why it's a factor...

Are you serious? Linking to external websites does not lower your PR. That is the funniest thing I have ever heard of. Where on earth did you read or hear that?

- Structure of site.
Sure, I'll buy that one... it's got to help, just common sense but if your using a forum software then your kinda limited to a few things in the structure... amirite?

You are correct, however changing your URLs from dyanmic (?=topicnumber&postnumber&reply) to static (forum/forum/topic-1) then all helps a little, but granted you can't really do much with forum software. although with blogs and such there is always room for improvement.

Yes, focusing on backlinks is a mistake... but backlinks help. 🙂
I agree that focusing on the content is good, having a good community is good, and supplying what people want is also a really good tip... I can see where your coming from and it proves your a good admin and webmaster but to become a *great* one you've got to get your site out there as well and backlinks to other sites will do a lot of things...
1) Attract visitors from the site the backlink is on.
2) Get you a PR which *does* help with SERPs.
3) Get your site crawled more often.
4) Earn you more money if you decide to sell your website/forum/domain.

Those are points which have been proven and undeniable by anyone.

Actually, regularly updated content (blogs, fourms, dynamic homepages etc.) improve your chance on being crawled over backlinks. If you have more backlinks but an inactive site that hasn't changed for a while, you wont get crawled more than a site with half links but tons more dynamic content and more activity. The points haven't been proven as most backlinks either created, or bought, do not attract visitors as most link building is borderline blackhat SEO. So:
1) No.
2) Backlinks improve your SERP rankings more than improving your PR score, depending on keyword choice and pages linked to.
3) Not particularly, although if your site is new then yes you will need at least a dozen links from actively visited websites.
4) Correct, so long as they are good quality (money money money).

You'd rather a PR0 website that ranks number one over a PR5 domain? Well chances are the PR0 isn't going to be number one... and I'd go with the PR5 as if it is the case I'd buy some really high quality content for insurance, focus on some keywords, get some more traffic to the site and then sell it off for a really good profit... to be perfectly honest.

A PR 0 site would be cheaper, have more content, be easier to work with and have a better structure than the PR 5 website, regardless of the domain (I would buy it for the site, not just the brand). The chances of the PR 0 site not being one is the same as the PR 5. The PR site may be ranking heavily for another keyword or long tail term, not necessarily the keyword I am after. Thus, PR doesn't help, it's all down to SEO. How would you get more traffic and get keyword rankings if the site above you already has a better strategy in place and is days/months ahead of you? If they have an effective campaign in place, you wont be able to touch them. Regardless of PR score.

Your example above is crap mate... it's like me saying the sun is smaller than pluto. Sure you can rank badly for your keywords but websites with a PR4 kinda, mostly, a good 90% have good keywords due to it coming with the process of building your backlinks and getting a PR. I know it's an indicator, I never said it wasn't I said it helps with the SERPs, which is undeniable...
The PR ranking system is up to date. Google also doesn't provide data on how it's viewed but google's bot source has been leaked a little while back and guess what!?!? It *did* infact have PR as a factor... go find it if you don't believe me and look for yourself.

You basically stated that it IS a huge factor for ranking, it's not. PR is a tool, an indication. It is not a "HEY WEBMASTERS! THIS IS HOW WELL YOU RANK FOR ANY KEYWORD IN OUR SERPS!" It's a tool from gray cloud to a high 10, which will display how well you are doing through optimization. That is it. Sure, it's a factor considered by Google, I didn't say it wasn't but compared to backlinks, content, age, and so on and so forth, it's not worth the bother. Optimizing for keywords and spending time on other aspects will bring up your PR regardless. So would you rather focus on your PR and neglect other aspects or focus on all factors and raise your PR anyway?

 

[netsavy006]

Sure you might have a PR 4 but do you have a good bounce rate?

What's a bounce rate? I've seen it in Google Analytics, as a % but I don't know what it means. What is it and what is considered a good "bounce rate"?

 

[Rich Edmonds]

Anything under 50% is pretty good, it's basically visitor length of visits. So if your visitors who come to your site leave almost (or) immediately, your bounce rate will increase. However, if your visitors stay for lengths of time, then it will decrease.

 

[Expired Account 2]

Anything under 50% is pretty good, it's basically visitor length of visits. So if your visitors who come to your site leave almost (or) immediately, your bounce rate will increase. However, if your visitors stay for lengths of time, then it will decrease.

*facepalm*
Bounce rate is the percentage of single-page visits or visits in which the person left your site from the entrance (landing) page. Use this metric to measure visit quality - a high bounce rate generally indicates that site entrance pages aren't relevant to your visitors. The more compelling your landing pages, the more visitors will stay on your site and convert. You can minimize bounce rates by tailoring landing pages to each keyword and ad that you run. Landing pages should provide the information and services that were promised in the ad copy.
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Rich be quiet... you've been contradicting yourself so much it's not even funny... you've stated that PR has nothing to do with SERPs...

I bet you any amount of money f we have the same quality of everything and I had a higher PR than you I'd be above you in google... I BET you any amount of money... you know it's true and so do I just leave!

 

[Rich Edmonds]

Bounce rate is the percentage of single-page visits or visits in which the person left your site from the entrance (landing) page. Use this metric to measure visit quality - a high bounce rate generally indicates that site entrance pages aren't relevant to your visitors. The more compelling your landing pages, the more visitors will stay on your site and convert. You can minimize bounce rates by tailoring landing pages to each keyword and ad that you run. Landing pages should provide the information and services that were promised in the ad copy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounce_rate - Which is basically what I explained in the most basic terms. Thank you.

Rich be quiet... you've been contradicting yourself so much it's not even funny... you've stated that PR has nothing to do with SERPs...

I bet you any amount of money f we have the same quality of everything and I had a higher PR than you I'd be above you in google... I BET you any amount of money... you know it's true and so do I just leave!

When have I contradicted myself? I said it has little impact on SERPs, as it doesn't. I have stood by this throughout and you began to agree with my points after you stated that PR is everything. You know you have been wrong and contradicted yourself so you have backed out the disagreement. You aren't comfortable with what you have said and are re-thinking due to my reply above. How would you rank higher than me due to PR score? The bet is ridiculous! It entirely depends on what keywords you rank for! PR is NOT a statement on how you generally rank for every keyword in the world. C'mon, use some common sense, you are basically saying that you'll be higher than me due to your PR score... I really will end here as you obviously have not got a clue what you are on about. I'll save you any more self-embarrassment as your comment about linking to other sites reducing PR is absolutely hilarious.

 

[Expired Account 2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounce_rate - Which is basically what I explained in the most basic terms. Thank you.

http://www.google.com/support/analytics ... swer=81986
No, thank you. 🙂
google support > wiki.

When have I contradicted myself? I said it has little impact on SERPs, as it doesn't. I have stood by this throughout and you began to agree with my points after you stated that PR is everything. You know you have been wrong and contradicted yourself so you have backed out the disagreement. You aren't comfortable with what you have said and are re-thinking due to my reply above. How would you rank higher than me due to PR score? The bet is ridiculous! It entirely depends on what keywords you rank for! PR is NOT a statement on how you generally rank for every keyword in the world. C'mon, use some common sense, you are basically saying that you'll be higher than me due to your PR score... I really will end here as you obviously have not got a clue what you are on about. I'll save you any more self-embarrassment as your comment about linking to other sites reducing PR is absolutely hilarious.

You've contradicted yourself saying it has no effect now changing to say it has an effect, just minimal... please find where I stated it is everything... I've repeatedly stated it does help, never said it was everything... your the one who knows he's changing his story and has lost... I'm the one trying to save you... you clearly don't know anything... the bet isn't ridiculous it's perfectly sound that if our sites were identical in every way but I had a higher PR I'd be above you... it's fact dude...

And I aint backing out, I'm bored and lazy which means I really don't want to type a lot... go on skype and I'll continue with it but I really don't want to type any more... especially at this crappy argument of where your wrong. 🙂

 

[Rich Edmonds]

http://www.google.com/support/analytics/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=81986
No, thank you. 🙂
google support > wiki.

They basically explain the exact same thing. So how does one better the other, it's just a different explanation?

You've contradicted yourself saying it has no effect now changing to say it has an effect, just minimal... please find where I stated it is everything... I've repeatedly stated it does help, never said it was everything... your the one who knows he's changing his story and has lost... I'm the one trying to save you... you clearly don't know anything... the bet isn't ridiculous it's perfectly sound that if our sites were identical in every way but I had a higher PR I'd be above you... it's fact dude...

And I aint backing out, I'm bored and lazy which means I really don't want to type a lot... go on skype and I'll continue with it but I really don't want to type any more... especially at this crappy argument of where your wrong. 🙂

I haven't contradicted myself once, you have been talking rubbish about a subject you obviously have little involvement in. I know what I'm talking about as I actually do this for a living, I'm sorry but my colleagues have looked at your points and attempts to twist my wording and they agree with what I have said and stood by. When SEO consultants disagree with you, you generally realize you are in the wrong. Why talk anymore? I haven't embarrassed myself, I haven't said anything I'm regretting, I have no desire to continue this further from view. My points are valid and I will not allow others to be misinformed by someone who is not sure what they are on about. Sorry, but it had to be said.

Just please stop. I realize you are stubborn, but please stop. You have been proven wrong by people who do this day after day. I'm sorry but there's not much more you can say.

 

[Expired Account 2]

They basically explain the exact same thing. So how does one better the other, it's just a different explanation?

You stated it what I said was wrong and i C&P'd it from there... so really you argued with it...

I haven't contradicted myself once, you have been talking rubbish about a subject you obviously have little involvement in. I know what I'm talking about as I actually do this for a living, I'm sorry but my colleagues have looked at your points and attempts to twist my wording and they agree with what I have said and stood by. When SEO consultants disagree with you, you generally realize you are in the wrong. Why talk anymore? I haven't embarrassed myself, I haven't said anything I'm regretting, I have no desire to continue this further from view. My points are valid and I will not allow others to be misinformed by someone who is not sure what they are on about. Sorry, but it had to be said.

Just please stop. I realize you are stubborn, but please stop. You have been proven wrong by people who do this day after day. I'm sorry but there's not much more you can say.

*sigh*
You've contradicted yourself a lot... if you don't see it then your more of an idiot than I thought you were... I stated it has something to do with SERP's, you stated it didn't and now your saying it does...
wow really, you do it for a living? I actually work for a living and I'm in college... your "colleagues" I don't care about... my "colleagues" at google says I'm right, me stating people say stuff means nothing to be perfectly honest... you have embarrassed yourself, if you think your a SERPs consultant and think PR has nothing to do with SERP's then you've embarrassed yourself really badly. 🙂
Your points arn't valid, you've backed up your words with nothing while I've shown my proof and my points, your the one trying to accuse turning around when your the one turning shizzle around... I'm stubborn yes and I admit it, you are to so it's not needed to be said unless you don't think you are...

You have some problems dude and you should try and find a new profession. 😉

 

[Rich Edmonds]

You stated it what I said was wrong and i C&P'd it from there... so really you argued with it...

Please find where I stated you were wrong about the bounce rate. No, wait, I didn't. I merely stated that you said exactly what I did, except mine was in a more basic format. you stated my explanation was incorrect.

*sigh*
You've contradicted yourself a lot... if you don't see it then your more of an idiot than I thought you were... I stated it has something to do with SERP's, you stated it didn't and now your saying it does...
wow really, you do it for a living? I actually work for a living and I'm in college... your "colleagues" I don't care about... my "colleagues" at google says I'm right, me stating people say stuff means nothing to be perfectly honest... you have embarrassed yourself, if you think your a SERPs consultant and think PR has nothing to do with SERP's then you've embarrassed yourself really badly. 🙂
Your points arn't valid, you've backed up your words with nothing while I've shown my proof and my points, your the one trying to accuse turning around when your the one turning shizzle around... I'm stubborn yes and I admit it, you are to so it's not needed to be said unless you don't think you are...

You have some problems dude and you should try and find a new profession. 😉

Not really, I said it has nothing to do with SERPs in regard to what was being discussed and listed. Which, well, it doesn't. Then you went on about it being a major part and is vital to ranking well. So I rebuilt my reply against what you said by saying it plays a minor role. I do do it for a living, in fact I work at one of the most respected agencies around, who are also on the recommended list at seoMOZ. We deal with big FTSE clients so I don't see how you can compare between us both. Colleagues at Google? Never heard that one before, Sir. :roll:

Where did I say I was a consultant? I'm a technician, huge difference. I love how you are continuously twisting my words when I say it has little to no impact on your rankings. I'm sorry but if you believe that linking to external sites lowers your PR then I don't really wish to discuss this topic with you to a point where you are insistent that you are correct, when you are providing points that are untrue. How have I embarrassed myself? I have done nothing of the sort.

Where is your backup? I see no links, no references, where is your backup at all? I haven't had to backup my points as I have both knowledge, experience and people who work in the industry to back me up. I can bring in my colleagues as it's their profession, if they didn't know this stuff then they wouldn't be able to achieve results, would they?

Sure, I am stubborn, but I back down and accept when I'm wrong. Anyway, I'm going to come out and say we both have different opinions, we could carry this on forever and have the largest forum on FP with full of the same disagreement. At the end of the day, SEO is a practice that is a different experience for everyone, lets just leave it at that. Also, I do not need to find a new profession.

 

[Expired Account 2]

Please find where I stated you were wrong about the bounce rate. No, wait, I didn't. I merely stated that you said exactly what I did, except mine was in a more basic format. you stated my explanation was incorrect.

I didn't state you was wrong, you said mine was and linked to wiki... locate where I stated you was wrong? 🙂

Not really, I said it has nothing to do with SERPs in regard to what was being discussed and listed. Which, well, it doesn't. Then you went on about it being a major part and is vital to ranking well. So I rebuilt my reply against what you said by saying it plays a minor role. I do do it for a living, in fact I work at one of the most respected agencies around, who are also on the recommended list at seoMOZ. We deal with big FTSE clients so I don't see how you can compare between us both. Colleagues at Google? Never heard that one before, Sir. :roll:

It does though, he requested how to get RP... I told him how and THT said it had nothing to do with SERP's, which it does... Once again, find where I said it was a major part and was vital... I can't find any nor have I ever seen me say it... You said it plays *no* role in SERPs I merely replied stating it *has* a role, not vital but *has* a role and helps in SERPs as it *is* a factor in the algorithm

... colleagues at google was a sarcasm comment if you will stating how easy it is to lie and come up with crap... it's not hard to make fake accounts and make yourself to be another person... trust me. I *do* that as a hobby and a profession... it comes with the job of being an ethical hacker...

Where did I say I was a consultant? I'm a technician, huge difference. I love how you are continuously twisting my words when I say it has little to no impact on your rankings. I'm sorry but if you believe that linking to external sites lowers your PR then I don't really wish to discuss this topic with you to a point where you are insistent that you are correct, when you are providing points that are untrue. How have I embarrassed myself? I have done nothing of the sort.

I'm sorry but when you started off I read that you stated it has *no* effect what-so-ever, you never stated little... I stated it helped and you stated it didn't... your the person changing things around good sir and you know it!
It does in fact lower your PR... I've seen this from experience of my domain being PR3 and since I started linking out it went down to PR2... why do you think people want dofollow backlinks? 'cause it shares the PR and therefore can lower your PR... This is from personal experience and what I can gather, I'll admit there is no evidence of this apart from my own website.

Where is your backup? I see no links, no references, where is your backup at all? I haven't had to backup my points as I have both knowledge, experience and people who work in the industry to back me up. I can bring in my colleagues as it's their profession, if they didn't know this stuff then they wouldn't be able to achieve results, would they?

You have knowledge and experience yet your only a technician? wow... first person I've seen do that, well done skippy. 🙂
My backups is www.google.com itself if you want a link... that's more than you've got and to be perfectly honest... you can't out match that. =\ Where are yours then? I haven't seen anyone or any links or proof...
Bring then in? I can "bring" in people from google with a email provider and a proxy... not that hard. 🙂

Sure, I am stubborn, but I back down and accept when I'm wrong. Anyway, I'm going to come out and say we both have different opinions, we could carry this on forever and have the largest forum on FP with full of the same disagreement. At the end of the day, SEO is a practice that is a different experience for everyone, lets just leave it at that. Also, I do not need to find a new profession.

Hmm that's a difference to me 'cause I don't back down and I don't accept when I'm wrong 'cause I'm not... I'll agree we both do... and true we could... I also agree on leaving it at this... I really cba to type anymore...

 

[birdy]

Ok lots of arguing going on in here I will just say "I got a 3* and leave lol

 

[Rich Edmonds]

I see it more as a constructed battle of two similar opinions, rather than an argument 😛

 

[netsavy006]

Well just be careful. I don't want this topic to be locked...

 

[blupa2009]

I have page rank 2 on one site and 1 on another. I'm currently working on ways to gain more back links to help improve my PR having a PR helps me to gain more traffic since my sites are dofollow.