I'm 100% pro-choice for the woman. I've heard some states in America has passed an anti-abortion laws. For a modern woman like me, I use birth control daily to control my mental health issues related to periods and PMS and etc. Otherwise, I can't control myself and would actually harm myself. It's entirely for me personally the woman's choice.
Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?
- Thread starter Naiwen
- Start date
Pro-choice for 2 reasons. The first being that it's her body, her decision. The second being that mankind is overpopulated. We don't need more people, we need less because resources are drying up, pollution is driving whole species of animals into extinction, warped religious beliefs, violence and civil unrest,
and a whole mess of other problems.
and a whole mess of other problems.
How is that the fault of an unborn baby? Why is no responsibility given to the mom and dad who could have chosen not to fool around?
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I'm pro-life. The baby is in the woman's body but is NOT the woman's body and the baby has a distinct and unique genetic makeup. That's science! Plus more modern science finds have indicated that babies feel pain in the womb earlier than once thought.
I hate it that society will protect bird and turtle eggs and would never think to kill puppies in the womb yet fight to slaughter babies in the womb. It's as if we're saying those babies are worthless.
I hate it that society will protect bird and turtle eggs and would never think to kill puppies in the womb yet fight to slaughter babies in the womb. It's as if we're saying those babies are worthless.
Well, the bottom line is why should the kid pay for the parent's mistake? I mean, they made the mistake. I'm not saying the parents should die, but you see the reasoning. I mean, get a clue!
I think you're saying that pro-choice doesn't take into account the baby's choice.
Yes, but that's always the reasoning - and it's harped on very hard once it's born.
Because so far you have not managed to provide objective and empirical evidence in any way with your opinion that a zygote/blastocyst/fetus rights automatically supersedes a woman’s right to her own body. Since I think we can all agree people should be allowed anatomy and freedom over their bodies, we leave this particular opinion piece to the only person that actually matters: the mother that faces potentially life threatening sacrifice to their own body to decide to take of a medical tool, that being abortion, that allows them more control over their own bodies.
“We both know how babies are made” is not repeatable empirical evidence.
Yes this process is observable, and repeatable, but how babies are made is not empirical evidence of when life begins. How babies are made only describes a process, a step in the cycle of cellular based life. Explaining how babies are made unfortunately does not show life starts at point x. Spell out your supposed evidence, explain how insemination is the starting point of life, but not only that. But life with so much privilege that it supersedes a woman's right to her own body. Which gives way to my actual question: Should women have bodily autonomy or not?
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I agree with @Terminated 100% myself. Well said, gentleman! Bravissimo! As an agender born into a female body, I much treasure my body, my choice to decide if I want a baby with anyone or not personally. That’s my 2 cents worth though as a man born into the wrong body. Ya all can take it or leave it, I don’t really care, but I’m just really opinionated about this myself.
No, you don't get freedom over your own body when you have a prisoner in it.
I disagree. Thank you for your response.
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The baby inside is NOT the woman's body. The baby has a unique set of DNA. That's science.
I never made such a claimed that the fetus was part of the woman's body.
You bolded bodily autonomy as if the baby was not separate? Did I misunderstand you?
No. The fefus is just a passenger and is not part of the woman's body. It has no self awareness. It's empirically proven that no one remembers feeling pain or anything in the womb before they were born. They had no sentience then.
What I meant was that my entire argument was based on that women have a right as to what goes on with their bodies just as much as men do.
I don't think it's morally right to enslave women to their reproductive cycle. That women have a right to choose on whether or not they want a child. Accidents happen and birth control fails.
I think it is Mysognist to enslave a woman and impose your moral and religious ethics in to by forcing her to have a child she doesn't want.
If you morally and religiously oppose abortion. It's simple. Don't get one. Don't indoctrinate your will onto those who support it.
You say the woman has a right to her body, but the baby is a separate human being with it's own set of unique DNA. And babies feel pain, that's scientifically proven. I think that it's murder to kill your unborn child, whether it's the man killing his woman and the baby dies or the mother chooses to kill her baby...it's still murder. A life is taken.
I don't consider that murder based on empirical evidence. Also an unborn infant, by law in most states, is not considered a person with a right to life that supersedes the mother's right to control her own body.
A cell found on Mars could be considered life. But we don't give rights to it. While people have a right to live they do not have rights to use your body without your consent. If you do not legally give consent to being pregnant then you by law you can get an abortion. It's a constitutional right.
Even medically and empirically it's not seen as murder. I cannot see anyone rationally arguing with empirical evidence published & posted in the The National Library of Medicine (NLM).
What about rape victims? Would you force a 12 year old girl who was raped & impregnated by her drunk father or another relative to carry and go through child birth? Imagine the mental and emotional abuse you'd be putting them through.
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I don't consider that murder. An unborn infant, by law in most states, is not considered a person with a right to life that supersedes the mother's right to control her own body.
A cell found on Mars could be considered life. But we don't give rights to it. While people have a right to live they do not have rights to use your body without your consent. If you do not legally give consent to being pregnant then you by law you can get an abortion. It's a constitutional right.
Even medically and empirically it's not seen as murder. I cannot see anyone rationally arguing with empirical evidence published & posted in the The National Library of Medicine (NLM).
What about rape victims? Would you force a 12 year old girl who was raped & impregnated by her drunk father or another relative to carry and go through child birth? Imagine the mental and emotional abuse you'd be putting them through.
At 3 weeks the baby's brain begins development and at 16 weeks the heart can begin beating:
The fetal brain begins to develop during the third week of gestation.
The unborn can even feel pain:
Study shows preborn babies feel pain as early as 12 weeks’ gestation
Study shows preborn babies feel pain as early as 12 weeks' gestation
Discover the truth about fetal pain. Read about a study that explores the existence of pain in preborn babies as early as 12 weeks gestation.
erlc.com
When pregnant women get into car accidents, their immediate thought goes to "My baby!" Not my clump of cells. They ask if the baby is okay. Not, is my embryo or fetus still viable? They'll beg to save their baby's life. Which brings us to the point that some people are pro choice depending on how convenient that life within the womb is to them or not.
As for your example of the 12 year old, do you know the mental anguish that a woman has to endure after being forced to have an abortion? Maybe you don't since you can never carry a baby inside you. You use aggressive wording such as forcing the girl to do something and yet, you put more shame on her by telling her that she shouldn't have that baby or carry it to term instead of getting proper medical care and telling her that even though her father did something he never should have, the baby can still have loving parents through adoption.
@Lämmchen At the beginning of the thread when @Naiwen asked, I declared Pro-Choice. It's no one else's business if someone does or doesn't get an abortion, nor does it matter what you religiously or arbitrarily believe.
Having someone receive an abortion 100 to 1000 miles away from you has absolutely ZERO affect on your life. If the mother needs to do it whether that's life threatening or not by all means she should get an abortion if she thinks it is best. You do not remember your own birth. You have no memory of pain or pleasure. You can argue that babies do feel pain, but you yourself don't remember anything at all from when you were born. A lizard is more conscious.
I don't expect every member here in the forum to agree with me. I don't expect all of the members here to agree with you either. You want to argue that it's "murder" be my guest. But "murder" is a legal term. Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. Under what definition is it murder? The fact that you say it is, does not make it so. You can no more murder a cell than you can murder a Tin Man. Calling it murder is hyperbolic. It fits no definition at all. Who told you abortion is murder?
If you start with the premise abortion is murder; an “anti-abortion conclusion” is basically guaranteed as you are starting at the finish line and wanting a prize. It's what we call a postulate argument where you wall someone into an attempt to corner them into validating or verifying your "belief" on your side of the debate. As I have realized, this is no longer a debate.
Everyone either has opposing or similar views on this topic being based on religion, different morals, personal reasons, or for reasons they find that are rational. I understand the reasons behind pro-life and I see both sides of the argument. I am a father of two kids and still I am Pro-Choice as I respect and support the 14th Amendment. I have nothing further to add to this debate. With respect, I decline further commentary.
Having someone receive an abortion 100 to 1000 miles away from you has absolutely ZERO affect on your life. If the mother needs to do it whether that's life threatening or not by all means she should get an abortion if she thinks it is best. You do not remember your own birth. You have no memory of pain or pleasure. You can argue that babies do feel pain, but you yourself don't remember anything at all from when you were born. A lizard is more conscious.
I don't expect every member here in the forum to agree with me. I don't expect all of the members here to agree with you either. You want to argue that it's "murder" be my guest. But "murder" is a legal term. Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. Under what definition is it murder? The fact that you say it is, does not make it so. You can no more murder a cell than you can murder a Tin Man. Calling it murder is hyperbolic. It fits no definition at all. Who told you abortion is murder?
If you start with the premise abortion is murder; an “anti-abortion conclusion” is basically guaranteed as you are starting at the finish line and wanting a prize. It's what we call a postulate argument where you wall someone into an attempt to corner them into validating or verifying your "belief" on your side of the debate. As I have realized, this is no longer a debate.
Everyone either has opposing or similar views on this topic being based on religion, different morals, personal reasons, or for reasons they find that are rational. I understand the reasons behind pro-life and I see both sides of the argument. I am a father of two kids and still I am Pro-Choice as I respect and support the 14th Amendment. I have nothing further to add to this debate. With respect, I decline further commentary.
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A big problem could be the Catholic church and its stance on birth control. While I agree with pro-life, I think some pro-lifers have made rules against contraception. Now another problem is racism. African Americans have 40 percent of abortions but A.A. babies are difficult to find adoptive parents for. That's terrible and needs to be dealt with.
Abortion stops a beat heart.
Well, in that case, why not expand till after your born, being sarcastic, of course.
Anyway, I really feel abortions in most cases are easy ways out for irresponsible people - who make the baby pay, with its life.
Abortion stops a beat heart.
Well, in that case, why not expand till after your born, being sarcastic, of course.
Anyway, I really feel abortions in most cases are easy ways out for irresponsible people - who make the baby pay, with its life.
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