Public Safety Reassessment

[Twisted Fairytale]

Black Angel, the notice that was posted does not include using nulled scripts. If we have a site that is using nulled scripts, the topic will be removed and the user will be contacted. If the user continues to advertise their nulled forum, their URL will be blocked.

The original post that was posted deals with members who are harming other members.

 

[D]

We will not be taking action unless we are certain of a user's actions.

How will the evidence be verified to be true? Anynub can use inspect element to make proof and get a user banned.

See? The above screenshot is definitely fake. But it shows how easy it would be to make evidence to get a user banned their reputation tarnished. It's very easy to abuse.

 

[Black Angel]

I get what you are saying about the notice, but I still don't understand why it'd be against policy. If they are supplying these scripts then I completely understand as they are harmful to use can lead to a lot of victims, and they have. But I just dont understand why a user using it for their own personal reasons, and not giving it out and just minding their own business would be against policy.

You understand what I mean?

Using the above example with IPB could lead to a lot of innocent people getting reported.

 

[D]

I get what you are saying about the notice, but I still don't understand why it'd be against policy. If they are supplying these scripts then I completely understand as they are harmful to use can lead to a lot of victims, and they have. But I just dont understand why a user using it for their own personal reasons, and not giving it out and just minding their own business would be against policy.

You understand what I mean?

Using the above example with IPB could lead to a lot of innocent people getting reported.

Nulled scripts are illegal. I make PHP scripts and have lost $x,xxx in sales because of people sharing my scripts on null/warez forums. I'm not some big company, I'm one guy with a family to feed. Nulled scripts take money out of the pockets of people like me, who build nice things and sell licenses for reasonable prices and *attempt* to make a living from doing this.

People who steal scripts are the worst people.

 

[Twisted Fairytale]

Dean, how did you get that screenshot!? :lol:

Honestly, we'll be using our best judgement. I'm not claiming this to be fool-proof, but it is an attempt to improve the safety of our community. In addition, PMs used as proof here are easy to verify.

Also, yes, nulled scripts are illegal. If it's illegal in the US, it's illegal here.

 

[Rick Ace]

Forum Promotion Community,

It has recently come to the attention of myself and other administrators that the public has concerns about safety against hackers, scammers, and other frowned upon behaviors. In the past, we have held the notion that "If they didn't occur on Forum Promotion, we can't punish the user."

However, we also have a top priority to protect the honorable users of the community. We want to make sure that these ill-mannered individuals can not use our safe community to exploit others. Therefore, starting today, any user found to have scammed, hacked, or participated in any obtusely ill-mannered or illegal actions will be banned from Forum Promotion, as well receive a notice on their profile summarizing their actions.

A handful of users are already being looked into. Please understand that we will not discuss these users in this thread, but a list may be posted soon for public reference.

We hope to establish a safe community, void of threats such as these. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them below.

If you have information and proof regarding a member who
falls into these categories, please contact [user]Twisted Fairytale[/user].​

My first notion regarding this matter was to support ForumPromotion in its effort to protect the FP community from malicious users. And I would agree that hackers and scammers must be stopped before entry onto the forum. However, this announcement is much more ambiguous than that. Due to the ambiguity, it's unclear who will be punished or banned. The circumstances behind these punishments also appear to be mysterious.

Firstly, as far as I know, ForumPromotion lacks the resources to contact proper authorities to confirm a user's identity on a massive scale. As a result, it's hard to tell whether or not a user truly has malicious intent. False claims could be easily sent to FP Staff. Those who have the expertise may even use more professional methods to make a user appear malicious. The truth is that we may NEVER know a person's true identity on the internet.

The new type of regulation that ForumPromotion intends to impose on its community is also an invasion of privacy. Those of us that speak freely on other services may be banned here, if FP decides our statements are "obtusely ill-mannered". In fact, the wording is so vague, it conveys the idea that any member of FP may be banned for their statements and deeds outside of FP.

This is a serious concern for those of us that have ties with people who actively use FP. We want our statements and actions outside of FP to be left alone. Many of us are not willing to sacrifice freedom of speech in order to be part of this community. Je suis Charlie.

Ultimately, there is an easy solution for ForumPromotion to adapt. The announcement must be modified to make its intent clear. This guideline should affect only the most serious of offenders. And you should reassure us that the statements we make on alternative services WILL NOT affect our status on ForumPromotion. Personally, I have never complained about changes on FP. I have also followed MasterA's progress on this forum with eagerness. I hope this forum's administration will take my comments seriously, as I am not asking for much. I am merely asking for reassurance that statements made outside of FP will not affect our accounts on ForumPromotion. Thank you for reading. And I hope that the best outcome will be chosen for this forum.

Rick Ace

 

[D]

In addition, PMs used as proof here are easy to verify.

Ya, was a quick example of how easy it is to use inspect element 😛 Could easily be done with emails, paypal transactions etc;

 

[Black Angel]

I get what you are saying about the notice, but I still don't understand why it'd be against policy. If they are supplying these scripts then I completely understand as they are harmful to use can lead to a lot of victims, and they have. But I just dont understand why a user using it for their own personal reasons, and not giving it out and just minding their own business would be against policy.

You understand what I mean?

Using the above example with IPB could lead to a lot of innocent people getting reported.

Nulled scripts are illegal.

So is piracy but there are still valid reasons that people do it. Mainly to circumvent censorship in their country.

And just because something is illegal doesn't mean it is wrong. Oral sex is still illegal in a lot of states here because it is considered sodomy..

And I understand that it is illegal, but I wouldn't assume ill intentions just because someone is using a nulled script. I mean what if they just bought the license and thought that was all they had to do or forgot to update the files.. it can happen.. I would just give that person the benefit of the doubt if they aren't actively supplying copies themselves or telling others to do the same.

So yes, in your example I agree that they should be reported and dealt with.

God you people are speed demons on the keyboard..

I'm on my phone and using my thumbs here, have some mercy on me please.. :lol:

 

[D]

I'm on my phone and using my thumbs here, have some mercy on me please.. :lol:

I modified my post to include my reasoning as to why I do not like nulled scripts 😛

 

[Black Angel]

I know and I just modified mine when you were typing your post.

TF, the post D quoted was directed at you.. he just happened to have the luxury of all 10 fingers when he posted and beat me to the punch..

 

[Twisted Fairytale]

I've updated the guideline to be more specific:

Any user found to have participated in any illegal online activity, including but not limited to scamming and malicious hacking will have their account banned from Forum Promotion, as well as receive a public notice on their profile.

To clarify: everyone still has their freedom of speech on channels other than Forum Promotion, so discussing FP off of FP will not have any affect on your account. However, admissions of "I hacked XXX" or "Hah! XXX gave me money for a license I'm not going to sell him" can be used as evidence.

Honestly, if you're not doing anything illegal, don't worry about this. 😛

 

[Luiz187]

Goodbye 80% of all FP members.

So true.

Out of curiousity, why would nulled scripts be against policy? I mean, I know what they are, but perhaps there are various reasons for using them as there are people who would use them in the first place. For example a person using a nulled IPB to get an actual true experience of what it would be like to host an ipb in real time on their own server or hosting where they can get actual hands on experience, outside of the extremely limited environment with IPB's hosted demo.

Mind you, I am not saying I support it, or would do it myself, just that I think that there would be as many different reasons for using it as there would be users doing so. One size does not fit all.

I know that IPB will help users with nulled scripts become legit if they purchased a license and will give them the updated files if they dont want to upgrade.

http://community.invisionpower.com/topi ... questions/

This was an option I considered myself before I went with MyBB, I loved IPB 2.3.6 and have been disappointed with IPB since they went beyond that. The reason I didn't go through with it was because I didnt want the risk of new threats being unpatched and also because I didnt want to have to square off with some self-righteous, nosey moron here trying to throw me under a bus and getting me into trouble over something that really isn't any of their business.

So if a nosey user decides to snitch on that person for using a nulled script, and it resulted in a ban, then they've just gotten a legit user banned just because they couldn't mind their own business.

But really, I would think those that use them would be open to far greater risk of an attack from those that provided it than not, which I've also seen happen. If these people are dumb enough to use one to avoid paying, then the risks are theirs to have.. but I've certainly got better things to do than to be running around and snitching on those for using it. Especially since I don't know their reason for doing so and it isn't really my business either.

Also how would you even know whether that person was using one, and furthermore why is it even your business? I've heard about peopIe demanding that admins show their license as proof of purchase and it reminds me of those nosey neighbors who always peek into their neighbors back yard and windows, while being "shocked and appalled" by what they see, even though they refuse to stop looking..

Personally, I would be more concerned with someone selling a blacklisted license or a fake one or someone cracking forums than getting self righteous about someone broke using a nulled script, but that's just me.

I do think that there should be a consequence over a false report, though, so that if the person using a nulled script does in fact have a license and permission to use it, then the person who reported them should be subject to the same or similar consequences.

Anyway, I apologize for the digression but this was something that I always wanted to know but never asked due to the scrutiny surrounding the subject.

I totally agree. FP isn't and shouldnt be a police or the Dursly Family.<br /><br />-- 23 Jan 2015, 03:01 --<br /><br />

Forum Promotion Community,

It has recently come to the attention of myself and other administrators that the public has concerns about safety against hackers, scammers, and other frowned upon behaviors. In the past, we have held the notion that "If they didn't occur on Forum Promotion, we can't punish the user."

However, we also have a top priority to protect the honorable users of the community. We want to make sure that these ill-mannered individuals can not use our safe community to exploit others. Therefore, starting today, any user found to have participated in any illegal online activity, including but not limited to scamming and malicious hacking will have their account banned from Forum Promotion, as well as receive a public notice on their profile.

A handful of users are already being looked into. Please understand that we will not discuss these users in this thread, but a list may be posted soon for public reference.

We hope to establish a safe community, void of threats such as these. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them below.

If you have information and proof regarding a member who
falls into these categories, please contact [user]Twisted Fairytale[/user].​

Are we using our own countries laws?

 

[JLogan]

This seems like something that will be abused by people in the future. Current staff members might use this properly, but at some point there is going to be a staff member or another community member who abuses this and completely ruins someone's reputation. You might think "No, that will never happen", but just think about the amount of laws that get passed that are meant to protect the community, but get used by people for their own benefit.

What if some member wants to tarnish the reputation of another member, because they are rising fast and own a similar site? They could simply signup on a bunch of communities with the same name as another member and scam a ton of people. And, then use that to get the member degraded here. There is a lot of way this can be abused.

What is stopping me from using the names Twisted Fairytale, Joshua Farrell, or MasterA on another Forum. Literally, right now, I can grab your avatar and names and go scam 15 people and make them think that it was you who did it.

 

[Luiz187]

This seems like something that will be abused by people in the future. Current staff members might use this properly, but at some point there is going to be a staff member or another community member who abuses this and completely ruins someone's reputation. You might think "No, that will never happen", but just think about the amount of laws that get passed that are meant to protect the community, but get used by people for their own benefit.

What if some member wants to tarnish the reputation of another member, because they are rising fast and own a similar site? They could simply signup on a bunch of communities with the same name as another member and scam a ton of people. And, then use that to get the member degraded here. There is a lot of way this can be abused.

What is stopping me from using the names Twisted Fairytale, Joshua Farrell, or MasterA on another Forum. Literally, right now, I can grab your avatar and names and go scam 15 people and make them think that it was you who did it.

A very good point indeed.

 

[Joshua Farrell]

This is why Twisted had mentioned in is opening post originally (don't ask me why he took it out), that the person would still need to provide proof as such, otherwise why have a system in place to inform other admins of a user that has scammed, when someone is out to target an another user, just to do harm to that user?

 

[Izaya]

Nulled scripts are illegal and trying to rationalize that or Compare it to something like sodomy/oral sex which technically doesn't hurt anyone else but using nulled scripts does, is ridiculous. One has no ill effect on others the other does ill effect on the creators and it has ill effect on those of us who paid.

If you aren't up to anything questionable, such as myself, then this shouldn't bother you. Which it doesn't bother me in the least.

If you are up to questionable/grey area things or things that could possibly be considered bad...then do as D did and clarify.

This protects users here from scammers so by all means, if it gets rid of 80 percent of the users that means those aren't the type of people you want on your site so go for it. Keep the 20 percent quality you have.

 

[Luiz187]

Nulled scripts are illegal and trying to rationalize that or Compare it to something like sodomy/oral sex which technically doesn't hurt anyone else but using nulled scripts does, is ridiculous. One has no ill effect on others the other does ill effect on the creators and it has ill effect on those of us who paid.

If you aren't up to anything questionable, such as myself, then this shouldn't bother you. Which it doesn't bother me in the least.

If you are up to questionable/grey area things or things that could possibly be considered bad...then do as D did and clarify.

This protects users here from scammers so by all means, if it gets rid of 80 percent of the users that means those aren't the type of people you want on your site so go for it. Keep the 20 percent quality you have.

It may be illigal technically depending where you are. But seriously does anyone follow the law online anymore? Many times the ones who don't are Better lol.(#AnonHQ) It's their business anyway FP has nothing to do with it.

But since where following nogitsunes logic, ban everyone whos site doesnt have a privacy policy. Your supposed to have that to protect user privacy.

 

[Izaya]

Nulled scripts are illegal and trying to rationalize that or Compare it to something like sodomy/oral sex which technically doesn't hurt anyone else but using nulled scripts does, is ridiculous. One has no ill effect on others the other does ill effect on the creators and it has ill effect on those of us who paid.

If you aren't up to anything questionable, such as myself, then this shouldn't bother you. Which it doesn't bother me in the least.

If you are up to questionable/grey area things or things that could possibly be considered bad...then do as D did and clarify.

This protects users here from scammers so by all means, if it gets rid of 80 percent of the users that means those aren't the type of people you want on your site so go for it. Keep the 20 percent quality you have.

It may be illigal technically depending where you are. But seriously does anyone follow the law online anymore? Many times the ones who don't are Better lol.(#AnonHQ) It's their business anyway FP has nothing to do with it.

But since where following nogitsunes logic, ban everyone whos site doesnt have a privacy policy. Your supposed to have that to protect user privacy.

Does anyone follow the law online anymore? That's your defense and explanation. Okay then....

It's not about who is better or not better. Comparing the good that Anonymous has done to something like this is a bit insulting to anonymous really, as anonymous has done good even with stuff that is deemed illegal vs outright just stealing a script just because which is what we were discussing. Let's not compare apples to oranges.

But at the same time, FP should have the right to allow whatever they wish on the site and if nulled scripts is something they don't want so be it.

Last I checked, most forum software(at least IPB anyway) has a default privacy policy/terms of condition.

 

[Cosmic]

Can we get back on topic here? 🙂 There has been no change in FP's policy towards null scripts, so I think that's best discussed in a new thread in Cimmunity Matters, if at all.

 

[Izaya]

I think also perhaps a better way to explain and educate people as well is a good way to go about this. Give tips on how to handle transactions as well as how to deal with help from people you don't know also will go well with protecting users from questionable and proven devious users.

Edit: Off topic content removed. -Cosmic