Should Same Sex Marriage Be Legalized ?

[Dylan]

Should Same Sex Marriage Be Legalized ?
In at least 76 countries discriminatory laws criminalize private consensual same-sex relationships, exposing millions of individuals to the risk of arrest, prosecutionand imprisonment – and even, in at least five countries,the death penalty.
(UNFE)

The Catholic Church, United Methodist Church, Southern Baptist Convention, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, National Association of Evangelicals, and American Baptist Churches USA all oppose same-sex marriage.
(Pew Research Center, "Religious Groups' Official Positions on Same-Sex Marriage," pewforum.org, Dec. 7, 2012)

Just to make it clear not "civil partnerships" or "gay marriages".

 

[PlayBall]

I'm an evangelical and while I don't agree with same sex marriage I have no problem with people who are gay/lesbian and want to get married. I have friends who are gay/lesbian and we still hangout and get along fine and they also don't care that I'm a Christian.

I think people should just learn to respect other people's beliefs (even if they don't agree with it) and what they do and the world would be a much easier place to live in.

 

[Cosmic]

I'm an evangelical and while I don't agree with same sex marriage I have no problem with people who are gay/lesbian and want to get married. I have friends who are gay/lesbian and we still hangout and get along fine and they also don't care that I'm a Christian.

I think people should just learn to respect other people's beliefs (even if they don't agree with it) and what they do and the world would be a much easier place to live in.

Just out of curiosity: why do you say that you don't agree with their beliefs? I hear a lot of people say this, and it doesn't really make sense to me.

For example, I don't like guacamole. Some people like it a lot, but I don't say "I disagree with your liking of guaco," I say "You like guaco but I don't."

I don't see why you have to disagree with someone just because they're gay and you're not. I know that you mean well, but I don't think it's very respectful to disagree with someone because of who they are. Regardless of whether someone is born gay or not, when one gay person loves another, they aren't pretending. It isn't some act they put on for giggles. You know what I mean? 😛 It's real to them, and I think they deserve the respect of people recognizing them as real human beings, who have the right to live their lives how they wish. One consenting adult loving another is not morally wrong.

Accepting gay people without having to disagree with the way they live their life doesn't make someone a bad Christian. Plenty of Christians do this. Many Christians are gay. I think that the only reason why many Christians show reluctance to truly accept gay people, and consider their lives to be acceptable, is because of lingering intolerance. Believing this does not make you intollerant, but it does mean that you have been lead astray by people who do have intolerant beliefs.



I hear a lot of people make the argument "Well, first if we legalize Gay Marriage, then we'll be legalizing pedophilia and beastiallity soon enough." Anyone who thinks this is sorely wrong, though. The same argument could have been used in the 60s to say "If we let black people marry white people, then soon we'll legalize gay marriage, pedophelia, beastiallity, marrying trees, and marrying anime characters." 😛 Heck, isn't allowing marriage in the first place a slippery slope to beastiallity? Time to pass a law then I guess! 😛

Slippery slope arguments have to be backed up by fact, otherwise they are logical fallacies. Here's where the line should be drawn: any two adult human beings should be allowed to marry. That excludes minors, and yes, animals. Animals cannot give consent, and neither can children. And animals do have rights. If you can't see the difference here, then either you're trolling, or just really don't like gay people. :lol:

 

[Dylan]

I'm an evangelical and while I don't agree with same sex marriage I have no problem with people who are gay/lesbian and want to get married. I have friends who are gay/lesbian and we still hangout and get along fine and they also don't care that I'm a Christian.

I think people should just learn to respect other people's beliefs (even if they don't agree with it) and what they do and the world would be a much easier place to live in.

:shake:
I think people should just learn to respect other people's sexuality (even if they don't agree with it) and what they do and the world would be a much easier place to live in. 😉

Please note that your exchange request has been denied due to the views stated above.
viewtopic.php?p=1367058#p1367058

 

[John]

I could honestly care less whether or not you would like to be in a homosexual marriage. While I am a Christian; you have the right to sin all you want. While I don't have an issue with it itself, I have an issue with the culture of it. If you don't "accept" homosexuals now, you immediately die a social death from people calling you "bigoted" or "intolerant". At some points of it (such as killing or inprisonment) it is more unethical than anything else (although killing someone for a nonviolent belief is an issue all of itself). At some point, society needs to realize giving people titles for not going along with the common belief is just as bigoted and intolerant as you believe not "accepting" it is.

 

[PlayBall]

I'm an evangelical and while I don't agree with same sex marriage I have no problem with people who are gay/lesbian and want to get married. I have friends who are gay/lesbian and we still hangout and get along fine and they also don't care that I'm a Christian.

I think people should just learn to respect other people's beliefs (even if they don't agree with it) and what they do and the world would be a much easier place to live in.

Just out of curiosity: why do you say that you don't agree with their beliefs? I hear a lot of people say this, and it doesn't really make sense to me.

For example, I don't like guacamole. Some people like it a lot, but I don't say "I disagree with your liking of guaco," I say "You like guaco but I don't."

I don't see why you have to disagree with someone just because they're gay and you're not. I know that you mean well, but I don't think it's very respectful to disagree with someone because of who they are. Regardless of whether someone is born gay or not, when one gay person loves another, they aren't pretending. It isn't some act they put on for giggles. You know what I mean? 😛 It's real to them, and I think they deserve the respect of people recognizing them as real human beings, who have the right to live their lives how they wish. One consenting adult loving another is not morally wrong.

Accepting gay people without having to disagree with the way they live their life doesn't make someone a bad Christian. Plenty of Christians do this. Many Christians are gay. I think that the only reason why many Christians show reluctance to truly accept gay people, and consider their lives to be acceptable, is because of lingering intolerance. Believing this does not make you intollerant, but it does mean that you have been lead astray by people who do have intolerant beliefs.



I hear a lot of people make the argument "Well, first if we legalize Gay Marriage, then we'll be legalizing pedophilia and beastiallity soon enough." Anyone who thinks this is sorely wrong, though. The same argument could have been used in the 60s to say "If we let black people marry white people, then soon we'll legalize gay marriage, pedophelia, beastiallity, marrying trees, and marrying anime characters." 😛 Heck, isn't allowing marriage in the first place a slippery slope to beastiallity? Time to pass a law then I guess! 😛

Slippery slope arguments have to be backed up by fact, otherwise they are logical fallacies. Here's where the line should be drawn: any two adult human beings should be allowed to marry. That excludes minors, and yes, animals. Animals cannot give consent, and neither can children. And animals do have rights. If you can't see the difference here, then either you're trolling, or just really don't like gay people. :lol:

I don't agree with it because the Bible does not agree with it and I believe in what the Bible says. I love all people though and like I said I have friends who are gay/lesbian and we get along just fine. It's our job as Christians to love everyone just as Jesus did even though we may not agree with what people do.

 

[PlayBall]

•Leviticus 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1
•Leviticus 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."
•1 Corinthians 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
•Romans 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

 

[Cosmic]

Just wondering: if you are interpreting these passages correctly, why is it that God forbids homosexuality? I don't think "it says so right here" is an adequate reason to find something morally wrong. To me, "morally wrong" means that doing it in some way harms another person. If it doesn't harm another person, it's not morally wrong, in my opinion. If the bible said that eating pork is morally wrong (which I think it does) I would need a reason why it is morally wrong to make it my own belief.

And that said: I would take Leviticus with a grain of salt. Jesus said several things that directly contradict it. Leviticus explicitly requires the execution of adulterers, while meanwhile Jesus intervened in the execution of one in the book of Matthew by saying (paraphrasing) "He who is without sin may throw the first stone."

 

[PlayBall]

Just wondering: if you are interpreting these passages correctly, why is it that God forbids homosexuality? I don't think "it says so right here" is an adequate reason to find something morally wrong. To me, "morally wrong" means that doing it in some way harms another person. If it doesn't harm another person, it's not morally wrong, in my opinion. If the bible said that eating pork is morally wrong (which I think it does) I would need a reason why it is morally wrong to make it my own belief.

And that said: I would take Leviticus with a grain of salt. Jesus said several things that directly contradict it. Leviticus explicitly requires the execution of adulterers, while meanwhile Jesus intervened in the execution of one in the book of Matthew by saying (paraphrasing) "He who is without sin may throw the first stone."

Those are good ways to take a look at it. Yes, Jesus wants us to love everyone the way he does which is what I do. No one on earth is without sin. Sin is sin. There is no sin that is worse than another sin. No one is perfect except for Jesus. The Bible also says that marriage is meant between a man and a female. Yes, The bible does not say that gays/lesbians are not allowed to get married but it also does not support homosexuality as it clearly says marriage is between a man and a female.
Ask God your questions and He will definitely let you know his answers.

I'm trying not to sound harsh or anything which is hard to do on forums 😀 I'm just having a good ol debate which is what this section is about.

 

[Cosmic]

Just wondering: if you are interpreting these passages correctly, why is it that God forbids homosexuality? I don't think "it says so right here" is an adequate reason to find something morally wrong. To me, "morally wrong" means that doing it in some way harms another person. If it doesn't harm another person, it's not morally wrong, in my opinion. If the bible said that eating pork is morally wrong (which I think it does) I would need a reason why it is morally wrong to make it my own belief.

And that said: I would take Leviticus with a grain of salt. Jesus said several things that directly contradict it. Leviticus explicitly requires the execution of adulterers, while meanwhile Jesus intervened in the execution of one in the book of Matthew by saying (paraphrasing) "He who is without sin may throw the first stone."

Those are good ways to take a look at it. Yes, Jesus wants us to love everyone the way he does which is what I do. No one on earth is without sin. Sin is sin. There is no sin that is worse than another sin. No one is perfect except for Jesus. The Bible also says that marriage is meant between a man and a female. Yes, The bible does not say that gays/lesbians are not allowed to get married but it also does not support homosexuality as it clearly says marriage is between a man and a female.
Ask God your questions and He will definitely let you know his answers.

I'm trying not to sound harsh or anything which is hard to do on forums 😀 I'm just having a good ol debate which is what this section is about.

This seems fair to me.

Do you think a homosexual can go to heaven? If you have no idea, that's a fair answer too. 😛

 

[PlayBall]

Just wondering: if you are interpreting these passages correctly, why is it that God forbids homosexuality? I don't think "it says so right here" is an adequate reason to find something morally wrong. To me, "morally wrong" means that doing it in some way harms another person. If it doesn't harm another person, it's not morally wrong, in my opinion. If the bible said that eating pork is morally wrong (which I think it does) I would need a reason why it is morally wrong to make it my own belief.

And that said: I would take Leviticus with a grain of salt. Jesus said several things that directly contradict it. Leviticus explicitly requires the execution of adulterers, while meanwhile Jesus intervened in the execution of one in the book of Matthew by saying (paraphrasing) "He who is without sin may throw the first stone."

Those are good ways to take a look at it. Yes, Jesus wants us to love everyone the way he does which is what I do. No one on earth is without sin. Sin is sin. There is no sin that is worse than another sin. No one is perfect except for Jesus. The Bible also says that marriage is meant between a man and a female. Yes, The bible does not say that gays/lesbians are not allowed to get married but it also does not support homosexuality as it clearly says marriage is between a man and a female.
Ask God your questions and He will definitely let you know his answers.

I'm trying not to sound harsh or anything which is hard to do on forums 😀 I'm just having a good ol debate which is what this section is about.

This seems fair to me.

Do you think a homosexual can go to heaven? If you have no idea, that's a fair answer too. 😛

If I knew the answer to that question, then I would be God but since I'm not God I don't know the answer to that question 😀 I just say when people ask me that question... we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[John]

I would say yes. The Bible says all sins are equal in the eyes of God, so it wouldn't be anything more than say, lying, at least from what I believe. But at the same time, I'd be unsure about someone who's consistent within it; because Paul against spoke against repeatly and knowingly sinning.

 

[Cosmic]

It's good that we can agree that it is likely a minor sin, but is it explained anywhere why it is a sin? Jesus explained himself very well with parables when it comes to many sins, but a lot of these verses seem to be along the lines of "and by the way, homosexuality is bad. Don't ask why."

It may be enough that the bible simply says that it is a sin, but to properly interpret what the bible means, explainations are very important. Further, there are many contradictions and changes, such as the one I pointed out, and the fact that the Old Testament declares pork to be defiling, yet the New Testament says that it is in fact not defiling. To someone who lived in 100 BC, was eating pork a sin? Did God change his mind or did he just provide proper clarification? Why was it fine to eat pork after ~30 AD but not before then?

 

[Dylan]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-shor ... 96345.html

Have a read. 🙂

 

[Nebulous]

I think people should just learn to respect other people's beliefs (even if they don't agree with it) and what they do and the world would be a much easier place to live in.

Just out of curiosity: why do you say that you don't agree with their beliefs? I hear a lot of people say this, and it doesn't really make sense to me.

For example, I don't like guacamole. Some people like it a lot, but I don't say "I disagree with your liking of guaco," I say "You like guaco but I don't."

I don't see why you have to disagree with someone just because they're gay and you're not.

I like your guacamole comparison. 😛

I personally hate guacamole and say "no guacamole" when I order a burrito from my favorite Mexican restaurant. Nobody has ever "disagreed" with me for ordering my burrito without guacamole. Nobody has ever called my guacamole preference a "belief" either.

:lol:

 

[Thomasss]

I think it comes down to whether or not you want to be judged for disagreeing with someones way of life or telling them they cannot marry because someone views it as a sin.


This is America, with freedom of religion and all that jazz. Both gays and religious folks should realize there is going to be tension and hateful words said about one another. You cannot make everyone happy in such a diverse country. However, it's no ones place to say "Well I disagree with your way of life because my religion says it's bad, and therefore, I forbid you to marry someone." THAT is where the issue here lies. Freedom of religion means you have every right to practice your religion, it does not, however, tell you're able to dictate someone's life based on your beliefs. I don't believe in aliens but you do not see me going and protesting about shows investigating alien sightings, do you?

There's also the whole "gays are infringing upon the religious beliefs of people" and the only thing I can say to that is "you started it."

I also disagree with the LGBT community having laws preventing businesses from denying someone their service. Businesses have and have always had the ability to deny anyone for any reason at all; that was their right. I do not think because a gay man comes into a bakery and is denied based on that that the gay man should be able to sue the bakery for all it's worth, and win. That is the LGBT community forcing someone to do something they do not want. If you're denied, go somewhere else. The business will probably be bankrupt within a few weeks once the word gets out; like all those businesses in Indiana. 😛

Same-sex marriage should not be an issue in a world where everyone is different. People should learn to respect someone's views and move on. For the record, I am in fact gay, so don't go saying "ew you're a homophobe." No, I'm simply telling you it should be equal on both sides of the aisle. While same-sex marriage is legal in most parts now, there is still a long way to go before both sides of this issue can actually respect each other and realize that you will and will always have different views.

 

[Deleted member 5665]

Well, I know how some will see this kind of logic as wrong simply because they will try to use reverse psychology.

If we want to put this scientifically. Humans always must strive to evolve and progress and how do humans evolve? By simply reproducing. Homosexuals can not reproduce or progress in a human cycle it is like a huge boulder in the middle of a road it is what it is. There is no progression there is no evolution whatsoever it halts in one place and stays there being unable to create any form of change.

Now if we want to put this naturally as how nature is designed. Then yes nature would consider it wrong due to the fact of how it is. It takes one man and one woman can only have a child. Two of similar genders can not have children.

I am personally not one to judge though because it is up to the individual on what they want in their lives, but at the same time when does logic, common sense and reality apply? Does it stop because we want it to stop or we just want to avoid the undeniable facts because humans strive to push against how things are simply just are?

I personally believe things are the way they are for a purpose and they are not meant to change. Not in order to hurt us, but to protect us from others or ourselves. If humanity.

There is a line where humanity will always come to the realization that it is wrong when it makes bad decisions. Just because we believe something is ok doesn't mean it is. All decisions also have a consequence and people should consider all positive and negative outcomes of an important decision before saying it is ok or not.

Simply because I want something to be accepted doesn't automatically mean it is going to be alright for everyone else and others should accept it because I want them to.

With all the news related to Homosexuals and what they personally get away with by suing businesses, etc that simply disagree with it is, to be honest hypocritical. They seek acceptance and not wanting to be discriminated, but they do it to others? If it continues there will be backlash sooner or later and that is just simply being honest.

I understand some people will use "eye for an eye" excuse, but let me put it this way. If people forget to act civilized and simply try to be a better person when someone simply disagrees. Then how can are the people be uncivil say they are better? All it does is proves a point, to be honest.

Many people have suffered due to the legalization of homosexuality not saying I hate it and such, but I disagree how it was handled. There was no protection for other parties and Homosexuals run rampant and some intentionally push businesses to not accept them because the Law will protect Homosexuals over businesses and destroy the lives of small business owners or even large businesses and harm many jobs under those such businesses.

So other parties are being discriminated simply because now since the law accepts them they feel superior to other parties which I personally and absolutely disagree with.

They have their rights, but they don't have the right to destroy others for simply disagreeing with their lifestyle. It is very sad that the Justice system in America allows them to do such things, though.

 

[Deleted member 1609]

How are gay people in the wrong for suing businesses who refuse to serve them simply because they're gay? Refusing to serve someone based on a characteristic that is beyond human control is wrong. Do you think that businesses should be able to refuse to serve people because they're black or Jewish?

 

[Deleted member 5665]

How are gay people in the wrong for suing businesses who refuse to serve them simply because they're gay? Refusing to serve someone based on a characteristic that is beyond human control is wrong. Do you think that businesses should be able to refuse to serve people because they're black or Jewish?

Well from an honest business standpoint to be realistic. A business has a right to serve whoever they want. You have a right to go to whatever restaurant you please, but you are not entitled to their services since every business has a legal right to refuse service for any reason they chose to. There is more than 1 restaurant so why focus on that one and harm their business because they refuse to serve you? I personally find that selfish if a business doesn't want you as a customer then that is their loss, not yours simply move along to the next one. There is no reason to be up in arms over immature entitlement. Basic freedoms give you the freedom of choice and everyone has a freedom to choose but doesn't mean they have the right to force things on others if it makes them feel uncomfortable. There is a line between forcing things on people and simply disagreeing so people have to simply agree to disagree that is logically the mature thing to do. I find it immature that the law system allows people's lives be destroyed because Homosexuals feel they have a right to force people to accept them. Acceptance and respect is earned not force.

When you force acceptance of people it will cause a negative and the clear opposite. That is what causes revolutions. Believe it or not as you wish, but entitlement is what is going to destroy this country if it continues.

 

[John]

How are gay people in the wrong for suing businesses who refuse to serve them simply because they're gay? Refusing to serve someone based on a characteristic that is beyond human control is wrong. Do you think that businesses should be able to refuse to serve people because they're black or Jewish?

Quite simply, a private business is a private business. They should be able to serve whoever they want. I know in Georgia, there was a bill proposed that would allow pastors and churches to refuse service to a homosexual couple. Immediately, the LGBT community came out and said that it was "discriminatory"; quite simply, I think forcing someone to preform a service that violates their religious beliefs is just as, if not more discriminatory than allowing homosexual couples to sue people who refuse to service them. Especially if it's two private citizens.

Allow me to give my views here: I don't care if you're a homosexual. I really don't. I would never in a million years lay down with another guy, but if that's your thing; hey, don't say I didn't warn you about the consequences. I do, however, have an issue of what people call "tolerance". As I said above, I don't care if you're gay; but just because you're gay doesn't give you a right to tell me what to believe. I will continue to believe that homosexuality is wrong--and there's really nothing that can change that. I honestly do feel that it's fairly disgusting act; but it's someone else's life. If you want to do it, go for it. Just don't walk around and act like I should just "accept" whatever you feel is right. I won't judge you for it, but don't tell me how to shape my beliefs.