Transgenders

[Nebulous]

Are transgendered (people who had a sex change operation) REALLY male or female?

For example, is a guy allowed to call him self a woman just because he had his thingy sliced open and shoved up in side him? I'd say he is just a man with a mutilated organ.

 

[Zenrer]

Are transgendered (people who had a sex change operation) REALLY male or female?

For example, is a guy allowed to call him self a woman just because he had his thingy sliced open and shoved up in side him? I'd say he is just a man with a mutilated organ.

+rep

100% agreed on that line.

 

[RavenWings]

I think that's a really ignorant, narrow minded comment to make. Have you spent any time with a transgender individual and do you think if you haven't that it's fair to ask other people who aren't transgender on whether they are male or female?

I think it's unfair to the transgender individual to ask non transgender or people who haven't been around that part of the general community on their opinion.

I'm not transgender, but I still believe that sexual gender also has a lot to do with what you identify with and if you're going to go through all that to make a change and be taken seriously as that gender then damn it, you deserve to be treated as such, not made fun of.

Also not everyone who is transgender are transsexual (people who identify as the opposite sex to which they were physically born) which is what you're referring to.

 

[Nebulous]

I dont think I would ever confront a tranny to tell them that they arent a woman, but we all know they arent really. To be scientific, females have two copies of the X chromosome, while males have one X and one Y chromosome. Mutilated genitalia has nothing to do with determining what a man and a woman is. Oh and taking hormones will not change someone's DNA.

 

[wednesday]

Are transgendered (people who had a sex change operation) REALLY male or female?

For example, is a guy allowed to call him self a woman just because he had his thingy sliced open and shoved up in side him? I'd say he is just a man with a mutilated organ.

That is really offensive!!!!

Who are you to judge anyone? and what they feel they should be?
To me if a "person" was born a man but felt like a woman i would have no qualms in calling them whatever they felt comfortable with....and i would think nothing more of it
Not reduce myself to this shallowness.
Im sure every person who has had plastic surgery comes under this opinion of yours as well then?? Its the same thing after all....

Seems homophobia still exists. :roll:

 

[Ste]

Are transgendered (people who had a sex change operation) REALLY male or female?

For example, is a guy allowed to call him self a woman just because he had his thingy sliced open and shoved up in side him? I'd say he is just a man with a mutilated organ.

That is really offensive!!!!

Who are you to judge anyone? and what they feel they should be?
To me if a "person" was born a man but felt like a woman i would have no qualms in calling them whatever they felt comfortable with....and i would think nothing more of it
Not reduce myself to this shallowness.
Im sure every person who has had plastic surgery comes under this opinion of yours as well then?? Its the same thing after all....

Seems homophobia still exists. :roll:

It always has done and unfortunately most likely always will.

 

[Zenrer]

That isnt really Homophobia, well not in my opinion :shrug:

 

[Nebulous]

Are transgendered (people who had a sex change operation) REALLY male or female?

For example, is a guy allowed to call him self a woman just because he had his thingy sliced open and shoved up in side him? I'd say he is just a man with a mutilated organ.

That is really offensive!!!!

Who are you to judge anyone? and what they feel they should be?
To me if a "person" was born a man but felt like a woman i would have no qualms in calling them whatever they felt comfortable with....and i would think nothing more of it
Not reduce myself to this shallowness.
Im sure every person who has had plastic surgery comes under this opinion of yours as well then?? Its the same thing after all....

Seems homophobia still exists. :roll:

I didnt judge anyone. That IS what happens, that is the surgery. Also I didn't say anything or imply that I was homophobic either, in fact I have gay people in my family who I accept and love all the same as other people in my family. Great job on jumping to conclusions and assuming things right off the bat.
The fact of the matter is, these people are not a different sex. The surgery has not changed what they really are.

 

[wednesday]

Are transgendered (people who had a sex change operation) REALLY male or female?

For example, is a guy allowed to call him self a woman just because he had his thingy sliced open and shoved up in side him? I'd say he is just a man with a mutilated organ.

That is really offensive!!!!

Who are you to judge anyone? and what they feel they should be?
To me if a "person" was born a man but felt like a woman i would have no qualms in calling them whatever they felt comfortable with....and i would think nothing more of it
Not reduce myself to this shallowness.
Im sure every person who has had plastic surgery comes under this opinion of yours as well then?? Its the same thing after all....

Seems homophobia still exists. :roll:

I didnt judge anyone. That IS what happens, that is the surgery. Also I didn't say anything or imply that I was homophobic either, in fact I have gay people in my family who I accept and love all the same as other people in my family. Great job on jumping to conclusions and assuming things right off the bat.
The fact of the matter is, these people are not a different gender. The surgery has not changed what they really are.

How have i jumped to conclusions?
What you have written states it as plain as day!! It is offensive!
Theezy i really have nothing else to add bar from continue your copy n paste of subjects ...its all been said and heard before.
(btw this thread was removed from the beach house due to being reported)

 

[Nebulous]

Of course anything can be deemed offensive in a debate forum. Part of debating is delivering facts and arguments for or against the topic at hand, which Ive done here. Instead of going around screaming at the other person with several exclamation points and not really adding anything to the debate.

 

[wednesday]

Of course...you are the Messiah on everything after all.

My point being i think there are more subtle ways of making your opinion known without the derogatory manner in which you have chosen.

My view remains the same....It is not an issue. I am not that ignorant to the world.
If i decided to "mutilate" my breasts with plastic surgery would that make me less female??

 

[Nebulous]

If i decided to "mutilate" my breasts with plastic surgery would that make me less female??

No it wouldn't. I dont see how that relates to my point though. As I said, a man with mutilated genitalia is still a man.

 

[Murder he Wrote]

My views here related to what Travis posted.

I don't mean to offend anybody, and I'm certainly not homophobic but at the end if the day if you're born with a "thingy" you're a man, and if you're not - you're a woman.

There are no two ways around it - there just aren't. When you castrate a male cat it doesn't turn into a female, it's just a male cat without its tools. Same applies for humans.

 

[wednesday]

If i decided to "mutilate" my breasts with plastic surgery would that make me less female??

No it wouldn't. I dont see how that relates to my point though. As I said, a man with mutilated genitalia is still a man.

It relates to it in the sense im changing my body "mutilating it" to become more comfortable with myself...I thought that was obvious??

Anyway...im not gonna argue the toss with you..we all have different opinions, i just think your wording sucks!

Oh..i forgot these as extra
!!!!!! :lol:

 

[Cauldron]

Are transgendered (people who had a sex change operation) REALLY male or female?

For example, is a guy allowed to call him self a woman just because he had his thingy sliced open and shoved up in side him? I'd say he is just a man with a mutilated organ.

Ok I'm going to try and be really calm about this.
This is some information for people that know little or nothing about this subject.

Transgendered people are not people who have had a sex change operation, they are people who do not fit neatly into the male or female catergory, people who may feel they are actually both sexes or are more female and lesser male or vice versa. Some transexuals/transgendered people may wish to have gender reassignment surgery (its not longer called a sex change operation) but not all of them.

So theezy if you don't want to come across as ignorent or that you are trying to repress people then you need to really find out about what you are argueing about. If you are going to tell me your not interested in doing that, then that means you are wanting to encourage negative view points against a group of people and that is a prejudice. In the UK if you came out with these views in a lot of work forces you would loose your job.

Now you have copied and pasted this arguement on a lot of forums, whats the obsession, why do you need the world to know you think male to female transexuals are men? A lot of homophobia and transphobia is based on a deep seated fears of ones own feelings.

In other words people may start to think you are protesting too much and that you have transexual feelings yourself or perhaps you are sexually attracted to some transexuals?

People that are at complete ease with themselves seldom have a need to try and define other peoples gender and sexuality.

And please stop calling transexuals and transgendered people 'trannies' its a term of abuse, which in turn, changes your arguement from a debate into an oppressive abusive point of view

 

[Sasha]

Personally I think that the sex someone is, is determined by what is inside, not what is between their legs. I believe that some people are born the "wrong sex" in that their sex organs do not match what the person feels inside. Gender identity isnt that simple, thats why in females you get all sorts of personalities, from the really girly girls to the tomboy who is more like one of the lads, and the same with men.
And anyway, what's it got to do with you, who are you to judge?

 

[tarabelle]

A lot of homophobia and transphobia is based on a deep seated fears of ones own feelings.

People that are at complete ease with themselves seldom have a need to try and define other peoples gender and sexuality.

I have found this to be very true.

Live and let live!

 

[Sasha]

I agree! That and ignorance/lack of understanding for another's position.

 

[Montrose]

Excellent post Cauldron. I hope Travis takes the time to read it.

Since it seems that FP Staff allow such derogatory terms to be used here I will carry on the thread the only way they and Travis will understand.

You are all very ignorant. This is not a debate, it's a fuc*ing disgrace.

Tell me something, if I get a haircut, does that mean I have mutilated my head?

Get a grip guys!

 

[scarlett]

okay okay.

it is true, that at the end of the day when a man has a penis, he is still a man, regardless of what gender he truly feels he is. Same thing for a woman.

Theezy could have worded his "debate" or "question" in a less offensive way. it's all about being subtle and more aware of others feelings.