Transgenders

[Nebulous]

I posted this on a couple forums I frequent because I thought it would be an interesting debate. That is all.

Sorry to offend some by my choice of words in my posts, if you would like to start a debate topic on that, then go ahead. But we are debating the issue of Men/Women calling themselves something they aren’t. I’ve posted up facts relating to the fact that they are scientifically still a man/woman and surgeries will not change that fact. If I were to paint a lemon orange, would it be an orange? No.

 

[Cauldron]

I posted this on a couple forums I frequent because I thought it would be an interesting debate. That is all.

Sorry to offend some by my choice of words in my posts, if you would like to start a debate topic on that, then go ahead. But we are debating the issue of Men/Women calling themselves something they aren’t. I’ve posted up facts relating to the fact that they are scientifically still a man/woman and surgeries will not change that fact. If I were to paint a lemon orange, would it be an orange? No.

Would you like to argue that in a court of law in countries (including the one I live in) that now allow people to legally change their gender on their birth certificates and passports.
I really do not understand why you feel the need to argue this so much and what your interest is in it.

and Theezy a lot of people will weigh their feelings of a right to speech against whom they may offend.

In other words is it really worth posting these things and getting support, when you risk hurting and offending so many people with your words? There is a large Transexual/Transgendered community in every country. I would appeal to you to show people of a minority group some kindness and put aside your need to subject people to these views.

 

[Nebulous]

I posted this on a couple forums I frequent because I thought it would be an interesting debate. That is all.

Sorry to offend some by my choice of words in my posts, if you would like to start a debate topic on that, then go ahead. But we are debating the issue of Men/Women calling themselves something they aren’t. I’ve posted up facts relating to the fact that they are scientifically still a man/woman and surgeries will not change that fact. If I were to paint a lemon orange, would it be an orange? No.

Would you like to argue that in a court of law in countries (including the one I live in) that now allow people to legally change their gender on their birth certificates and passports.

Argue it in a court of law? That is just silly. If a country allows someone to change their gender on a passport or whatever, that will not change the fact that they are still a man/woman biologically.

I really do not understand why you feel the need to argue this so much and what your interest is in it.

My interest was to spark some interesting conversation in some otherwise bland debate forums. 😉
Sure you can assume that I am a transphobic or homophobic or what have you to try to present your side of the argument better, but all that is doing hurting it. I have not attacked anyone personally for their views, I'm just simply giving out my opinion. Any other logical debater would do the same.

and Theezy a lot of people will weigh their feelings of a right to speech against whom they may offend. In other words is it really worth posting these things and getting support, when you risk hurting and offending so many people with your words? There is a large Transexual/Transgendered community in every country. I would appeal to you to show people of a minority group some kindness and put aside your need to subject people to these views.

Anything can be offensive to anyone, I could have spent hours trying to make up the most politcally correct way to word each sentence, and even THEN someone would still get offended. Debate the topic, not the wording of it. :roll:

 

[Cauldron]

the first post really doesn't seem like you've spent hours thinking it up.
but ok yeah I will debate the topic.
if a person lables a whole group of people and can't accept them for who they are, it makes the said person a bigot.

and just because a person is related to gay people and they love them as people doesn't negate the fact that they may have some homophobic views. It's a very old arguement saying 'some of my best friends and family are gay' it doesn't automatically make that person immune to bigoted and prejudice beliefs, they may be better at containing them when family and friends are around, but scratch the service a bit and if the person is bigoted it will soon become very apparant.

and you may think it is silly stating that you should argue the case in a court of law, however should you ever travel or live in a country, where people can legally change their gender (and like I said such countries exist) and you refuse to acknowledge a persons change of gender, you could be up in court charged with harressement or/and discrimmination.

 

[Nebulous]

if a person lables a whole group of people and can't accept them for who they are, it makes the said person a bigot.
and just because a person is related to gay people and they love them as people doesn't negate the fact that they may have some homophobic views. It's a very old arguement saying 'some of my best friends and family are gay' it doesn't automatically make that person immune to bigoted and prejudice beliefs, they may be better at containing them when family and friends are around, but scratch the service a bit and if the person is bigoted it will soon become very apparant.

Very mature. You keep attacking me but refer to me as "a person" instead. :shake:
You, yourself are a total hypocrite, labeling ME and assuming I'm a bigot, homophobic, prejudice, and calling me a liar (referring to the part where I said I love and accept my gay family members). How do you know? You don't. Just because I have a differing view than you do doesn’t automatically make me those things. Please grow up and start talking civilly and discussing the topic at hand instead of harassing those who don’t think like you do. :roll:

 

[Cauldron]

if a person lables a whole group of people and can't accept them for who they are, it makes the said person a bigot.
and just because a person is related to gay people and they love them as people doesn't negate the fact that they may have some homophobic views. It's a very old arguement saying 'some of my best friends and family are gay' it doesn't automatically make that person immune to bigoted and prejudice beliefs, they may be better at containing them when family and friends are around, but scratch the service a bit and if the person is bigoted it will soon become very apparant.

Very mature. You keep attacking me but refer to me as "a person" instead. :shake:
You, yourself are a total hypocrite, labeling ME and assuming I'm a bigot, homophobic, prejudice, and calling me a liar (referring to the part where I said I love and accept my gay family members). How do you know? You don't. Just because I have a differing view than you do doesn’t automatically make me those things. Please grow up and start talking civilly and discussing the topic at hand of harassing those who don’t think like you do. :roll:

you are harrashing transexuals by speaking your mind. My point of view is that someone that can't accept a persons gender identity is a bigot. I am simply talking about a group of people that are unable to accept anothers group life style and life choices, its up to you to diecide whether my description of a bigot fits you or not.

Honesty goes both ways you know. Would you like everyone who finds your views offensive to simply opt out of this thread now? I have argued my belief system and told you what rights Transexuals and Transgendered people have in the country I live in. I have tried to get you to see it from a point of view of a transexual and I have been very honest about my opinons about others that can't or won't accept peoples life style choices.

You have got what you asked for an honest arguement. I work in lesbian gay bisexual transgender groups. I see what effect that arguements that you have put forward have on people. i see first hand peoples lives destroyed and crippled by other people that can't accept them for who they are.

It might just be a scentific debate to you, but to me its people, their life styles and pain they go through.

there is absolutly nothing further I can do now, I can't be any more honest with you, I have given you the human aspect to this and YOU diecide you are being attacked.

So be it I am now done with this thread

 

[Nebulous]

My point of view is that someone that can't accept a persons gender identity is a bigot.

And thats your point of view. However that doesnt necessarily make it correct. Why would I refer to a man as a woman, knowing he is really a man? That would make me a liar.
I'm sure by your logic, people disapprove of a serial killer's lifestyle is a bigot. People who do not agree with what another person says or does is a bigot. It's sad that people cannot have a point of view these days without being labeled with a nasty word by others who don't agree with them. :roll:

Anyways back on to the topic, it’s very naive of people to call others close minded and ignorant just because the don’t think the same. If people want to live in a fantasy world where men are women and women are men just because they had an operation, then more power to them. Who am I to tell them they can’t live in that fantasy world. In reality, they are still biologically a man or woman even after the operation.

 

[Palace]

To my opinion, if a man or a women wanted to be trans and do, just is basically an excuse for homosexuality, and it still wrong in my opinion. Should be illegal, just like homosexuality it should be illegal also. They both lead to A.I.D.S and death in everyone future who does it is a sad life to live like that.

 

[katy perry is hot]

To my opinion, if a man or a women wanted to be trans and do, just is basically an excuse for homosexuality, and it still wrong in my opinion. Should be illegal, just like homosexuality it should be illegal also. They both lead to A.I.D.S and death in everyone future who does it is a sad life to live like that.

Heterosexual couples can get aids just as easy as homosexual couples.

 

[Palace]

To my opinion, if a man or a women wanted to be trans and do, just is basically an excuse for homosexuality, and it still wrong in my opinion. Should be illegal, just like homosexuality it should be illegal also. They both lead to A.I.D.S and death in everyone future who does it is a sad life to live like that.

Heterosexual couples can get aids just as easy as homosexual couples.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Heterosexual

Yes, but only if one of them was carrying A.I.D.S already. 😛 I seen that on a doctor..show when they was talking about A.I.D.S, people can only get it by homosexuality, or if the other mate has already had it.

 

[katy perry is hot]

Yes, which is the same with a homosexual couple. I don't know what you're getting at here, and I REALLY don't know why you linked me to dictionary.com

 

[Palace]

Which means, homosexuals only can get it.

Marriage was only meant and was only normal between a man and a women, A.I.D.S can be caught only if the other one has gotten it be birth or has got it some other way. But Homosexuals can get it be marrying their same genders.

So its a very small percentage of a male and female marriage of getting it than homosexuals.

 

[Nebulous]

Which means, homosexuals only can get it.

Marriage was only meant and was only normal between a man and a women, A.I.D.S can be caught only if the other one has gotten it be birth or has got it some other way. But Homosexuals can get it be marrying their same genders.

So its a very small percentage of a male and female marriage of getting it than homosexuals.

What are you even talking about? And where are your facts & statistics to back it up?
Also that has nothing to do with transgenders claiming to be a different sex after their operation.

 

[katy perry is hot]

Palace, you're a racist bigot and your opinions are absolutely ludicrous and make no sense.. get it through your radical pentacost head.

 

[Zenrer]

Irviding, let me ask how he is racist?

To my opinion, if a man or a women wanted to be trans and do, just is basically an excuse for homosexuality, and it still wrong in my opinion. Should be illegal, just like homosexuality it should be illegal also. They both lead to A.I.D.S and death in everyone future who does it is a sad life to live like that.

That is plain crap, you think that people have a choice as to whether they are or not, maybe you should get your facts straight before posting, and dont be an idiot!

 

[katy perry is hot]

You should see his other posts, he says Obama is the Antichrist and that Obama is a Muslim, if that isn't racism, then I guess i'm crazsy.

 

[Zenrer]

Well I hadnt read the other posts

 

[Mike1140]

With all respect I do think its Wrong But I cant And wont Judge. And as far as this Racism goes EVERYONE has an opinion Bout this and The precedent.. So In all fairness to palace Its his right and who is Anyone to tell someone els its wrong... I myself Have not read the other post But... We are Most mature enough to take there oppiions This Post has gotten out of Control With the wining If you cant take it dont read it...

 

[Zenrer]

With all respect I do think its Wrong But I cant And wont Judge. And as far as this Racism goes EVERYONE has an opinion Bout this and The precedent.. So In all fairness to palace Its his right and who is Anyone to tell someone els its wrong... I myself Have not read the other post But... We are Most mature enough to take there oppiions This Post has gotten out of Control With the wining If you cant take it dont read it...

So you think Racism is fine because it is an opinion?

 

[Kino]

Guys this topic is about transgenders. Please stay on topic.