What's wrong with XF 2?
- Thread starter Jason76
- Start date
I've posted before what's wrong with it. Most notably that it wasn't much of an improvement over XF1 and that the new interfaces are very clunky, especially the "quick topic from index" where you have to scan over all the forum descriptions, topic counts, and all sorts of noise.
It was the sort of UI I'd expect from IPB or vB. It's especially telling when I know where they got the idea from it for. Discourse. Where it's so much slimmer and less clunky, not that I particularly like Discourse.
I was actually expecting for the entire interface, etc. to be overhauled.
It was the sort of UI I'd expect from IPB or vB. It's especially telling when I know where they got the idea from it for. Discourse. Where it's so much slimmer and less clunky, not that I particularly like Discourse.
I was actually expecting for the entire interface, etc. to be overhauled.
And nice site you have there.
The other highlights of XF2 boiled down to the ability for mods to ban, a staple feature of every software, reducing the tells, etc. Barely anything worth the hype.
The other highlights of XF2 boiled down to the ability for mods to ban, a staple feature of every software, reducing the tells, etc. Barely anything worth the hype.
Their editor doesn't let you go into a sort of source mode? Ouch.
Yes you can. 😵 Have you ever used the software? then as an admin/owner you can view it.
Mostly it's disable for members.
From IPB
It needs to be enabled for members cause it's very crucial.
Comes down to the owners, Up to them if they want it enable or disable
It's their choice but I think with other software it's the default unless they owner makes it not.
Viewing the source of a post (e.g. \[B\]blah\[/B\] instead of the WYSIWYG formatting it for you) is completely different from being able to use arbitrary HTML and shouldn't require it.
Sorry for the backslashes, trying to avoid it parsing that as bbcode.
Sorry for the backslashes, trying to avoid it parsing that as bbcode.
B
Bryn
I never really saw anything wrong with it, though I only say this as a member of a few XenForo-powered forums 😛 I can say it's more minimal compared to the first one though but I ain't complaining.
BBCode is the past. I wouldn’t be surprised if IPB was moving to an editor that does not use it internally. HTML can do all the same things, and is plenty secure with a good sanitizer built into the forum software.
Yes, you can. It's up to the admin to allow it. For example, once a user comes in and can spam, and it's public... The moderator can easily erase all that with a single click. Click "spam" and all his posts are gone from public view. And anyone with "permanently delete" can go in an delete the actual posts after removing from public view.
XF2 was never designed to change "forums." It was designed to remove bottlenecks, and make xenForo faster to load. There was nothing wrong with XF1, but there were some things that needed improvements, and they did make improvements. Which interfaces are clunky? Have you seen the ACP? It's easy. It's just like XF1, but better. Much, much, much better. More organized, more understandable behaviors.
What noise? All you have to do is click "quick topic from index" look for the forum that fits the description you're looking at posting in. In my opinion, I think that feature alone is for lazy people with no brains.
They wanted to remove some of the bloat that were in the original XF1. A lot of people on the xenForo forums were complaining about how much bloat there was in the original XF1.
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Gotta admit, I haven't been paying much attention to the forum software developers much in the past while so I never even noticed Xenforo 2 released.
So I can't really comment much on it.
I'd imagine that, like with most things, there are some changes people like and others people hate. But the truth is there is no perfect solution. Make a change like the "Post from index" and some will love it while others will moan about how it makes people lazy/stupid/whatever. There really is no winning for the developers.
So I'll say this... If you like a feature, cool. If you don't like a feature... either don't use it, ask the devs for an option to disable it or figure out a way to turn it off via plugin/mod yourself (or pay for someone else to do it if you can't).
And before someone says "I shouldn't have to pay to fix a developers mistake..." No, it's working as intended. You just don't like it. If this were a case where an update resulted in half the database being ignored if 3 unrelated options were set (like say how long a user could stay signed in for, how big avatars could be and whether mods could see IPs resulted in posts not showing up)... Yeah, I could see your point.
So I can't really comment much on it.
I'd imagine that, like with most things, there are some changes people like and others people hate. But the truth is there is no perfect solution. Make a change like the "Post from index" and some will love it while others will moan about how it makes people lazy/stupid/whatever. There really is no winning for the developers.
So I'll say this... If you like a feature, cool. If you don't like a feature... either don't use it, ask the devs for an option to disable it or figure out a way to turn it off via plugin/mod yourself (or pay for someone else to do it if you can't).
And before someone says "I shouldn't have to pay to fix a developers mistake..." No, it's working as intended. You just don't like it. If this were a case where an update resulted in half the database being ignored if 3 unrelated options were set (like say how long a user could stay signed in for, how big avatars could be and whether mods could see IPs resulted in posts not showing up)... Yeah, I could see your point.
As stated also in that thread:
I agree about this statement though:
They can't see the "BBCode" source code. Meaning something like this:
Code:
[B]Bold[/B]
[I]Italic[/I]
[U]Underline[/U]Not the HTML version.
Interesting take. BB code is still a huge part of the forum world. Especially for those who are not familiar with HTML. (Even though it's pretty much just replacing [] with <> for the basic things)
I'm even in the process of converting my custom forum from html editor to BBcode.
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HTML, maybe. But, not arbitrary HTML, as in, use whatever you want.
Markup is a tricky topic though, a lot of good editors aren't compatible with BBCode, plus there's always some flavour of the week like Markdown whose semantics vary from site to site.
Asterisks around text might mean bold on one site. Italics on another.
Markdown is a bit of a mess.
About the only thing which is neutral, actually standardised, and simplest thing to handle is actually HTML.
Post from index aside, quick topic from the topic list of an individual forum takes *four whole seconds* to load after you hit the What's up text. On a modern system, that is instant.
It's a fairly clunky software, although it might take some looking around to get a better vantage point. As for quick topic from index, that feature was copied from Discourse.
In Discourse and pals, you can create a topic from anywhere, as it's a single page application. XenForo somewhat copied that. And not particularly well. Better to not implement a feature at all than to do it poorly. It is quite clunky.
The competition simply lists forum names, not descriptions, separators and counters in their interfaces and accordingly have a lower cognitive burden. You might as-well just scroll down through the index and select a forum the old fashioned way almost.
It's not just what XenForo are doing, but what the other players are doing, where the world is going, momentum, how they're influenced, etc.
I believe the reason why BBCode was adopted was to avoid HTML hijacking. What I mean is this: You write HTML to gain access to the database/forum files/whatever. It's how MySpace was hacked when it was popular.
Then what is the problem...? This...?
What did you expect? It's called competition. It's obvious that KMA wants the Discourse market.
Eh. I don't really care about that. It's a non-issue. In fact, I sometimes use the new topic bar on top of the forum view, and not the "post new thread" button. Sometimes vice versa. I like that little area on top of forum view.
You need forum descriptions. The reason why that feature was added by Discourse is because "lazy" users complain it's [forums] too "complicated."
(Really?) I get annoyed by this all the time. I can't sit here and begin to tell you how stupid people are. I run CODForums, the highest ranking Call of Duty forum that isn't owned by Activision. Most users come in, and post in the wrong place. I shit you not. *rubs head* UGH. So annoying.Once again, it's called competition.
It's not like MySpace was particularly secure lolI believe the reason why BBCode was adopted was to avoid HTML hijacking. What I mean is this: You write HTML to gain access to the database/forum files/whatever. It's how MySpace was hacked when it was popular.
Then what is the problem...? This...?
What did you expect? It's called competition. It's obvious that KMA wants the Discourse market.
Eh. I don't really care about that. It's a non-issue. In fact, I sometimes use the new topic bar on top of the forum view, and not the "post new thread" button. Sometimes vice versa. I like that little area on top of forum view.
You need forum descriptions. The reason why that feature was added by Discourse is because "lazy" users complain it's [forums] too "complicated."
Once again, it's called competition.
You just need an intelligently written HTML parser, not one of those insecure XSS-ridden ones from the 2000s. I hope no one's writing ones like that in 2018 at-least, it would be a travesty.
If you try to make everyone happy, it will make no one happy, basics of competition. Thinking otherwise is how you get IPB and vB. Even in 2009, vB was just getting more bloated and bloated and bloated with half-done features, etc.
And you really don't need descriptions anywhere other than maybe the index, after you're there for like two days, you probably have the things memorised anyway, they're just noise in that sort of quick topic feature.
And frankly, forums are generally self-descriptive 99% of the time.
Or at-least, they should be. And remember, quite a few Discourse instances I've seen have been horrendously active, at-least from a per-user basis. *It works*.
There are basically two types of Discourse instances. Highly actively tight knit communities. And converted big boards which heard that Atwood was involved, liked the idea and hopped on.
To be frank, what matters is making the users happy and getting them active. Strict rules, procedures, and hop through 20 hoops just puts them off. That is why forums are dying.
Someone posted in the wrong forum? So what. In 2018, you're lucky if you even have users. And retagging is trivial, heck some software even give that ability to non-moderators to help out here and there.
And if someone can't figure what a forum is for from it's title, why would you think a description would help? A title is just a description in far fewer words.
This ain't 2009 where users had nowhere else to go.
It all ties into what people hate about forums. Slow. Clunky. Petty moderators who chase them over insignificant things no one cares about elsewhere. Etc.
Double posting, posting in the wrong place, locks at the drop of a hat, countless rules and regulations which, to be honest, no one ever really reads.
XenForo in comparison to newer software at-least, is like an embodiment of that classical mindset.
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Follow up post, don't shoot me for double posting, just kidding lol
Let's look at this from a user perspective. A user goes to a site, and it's kinda slow, but well. No biggie. They go in to make a post (perhaps to report a problem or get support) and it's basically a clunky interface with lots of redundant information.
And then, they wait for the editor to load in, type out their post, and then a moderator who probably engages in actual discussion perhaps three times a year will appear, just to tell you off.
And then, you decide. Well. I don't really want to deal with forums, so you stick around for a bit and kinda just leave. But then, they discover your *competitor* where every page loads instantly, they can quickly push content out and the moment it's posted, they get a like.
And then, they are graciously received by a courteous moderator or regular who patiently goes over what to do and what-not.
One thing which could probably help and I'm going to make a separate topic for this are action posts, and perhaps letting regulars pitch in for certain actions, not just any random jack, but not quite a proper moderator.
Let's look at this from a user perspective. A user goes to a site, and it's kinda slow, but well. No biggie. They go in to make a post (perhaps to report a problem or get support) and it's basically a clunky interface with lots of redundant information.
And then, they wait for the editor to load in, type out their post, and then a moderator who probably engages in actual discussion perhaps three times a year will appear, just to tell you off.
And then, you decide. Well. I don't really want to deal with forums, so you stick around for a bit and kinda just leave. But then, they discover your *competitor* where every page loads instantly, they can quickly push content out and the moment it's posted, they get a like.
And then, they are graciously received by a courteous moderator or regular who patiently goes over what to do and what-not.
One thing which could probably help and I'm going to make a separate topic for this are action posts, and perhaps letting regulars pitch in for certain actions, not just any random jack, but not quite a proper moderator.
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