Xenforo Review: Alot of hype about nothing

[Izaya]

I just want to say...this is solely based on my experience for the most part(though some of the things listed below have also been echoed by other forum admins who have used or still use XF as well). I know some XF fans get defensive and aren't open to criticism of the software 🙂


Background: We've given XF 3 chances. Once in 2013, Once In 2014 and Once in 2015...So we have more than enough experience with it.

Long review but detailed 😀

(I made this review back in December 2015, we've since moved back to IPB4)

Our experience with Xenforo has more or less stagnated activity as the community either flat out dislikes it or tolerates it enough to not flat out quit 😛

Let's get this out the way. Xenforo is not a bad software. It really isn't. It's actually really good. However, its fanboys will lead you to believe that because many sites are moving to it....that means it is the best. We all know popularity doesn't necessarily equate to being best. They'll lead you to believe that Xenforo is the only option...when there are some amazing products such as IP Board(3 and 4) and Woltlab Buring Board that do offer a lot more.

For us? Why is it underwhelming?
1. The Support Community

As active as their community is and as helpful as their community is(as well as the excellent support response time), there is a recurring theme that if you so much as speak negatively against the product you find yourself attacked. You'll find yourself needing to be on the defensive when you rightfully criticize the product about what it lacks or various usability.

This thread shows what I mean(As well as another on the largest 'admin' site)
Negative responses on suggestion threads

Even speaking with longtime(Since Day 1) XF users, many will say it is a blessing and curse simply because while the support is great, the moderation team at times plays favorites with the fanboys allowing them a bit more free reign to do/say as they please to lesser known or lesser liked individuals.

Not to mention the scandals and what not some of the Xenforo developers have been involved in that definitely makes you nervous about downloading various add-ons. Do a google search. For such a young software, there is always drama going on. The company itself originated from drama(Vbulletin lawsuit)

Two big board forums(Anime forum with about 10,000,000 posts and a Korean Music forum with 11,000,000 posts) were considering a Xenforo switch but based on various things within the community as well as the sketchiness of various developers and Xenforo's delayed stance on various situations, they decided elsewhere. A 3rd big board Korean forum running IPb4 skipped a conversion to Xenforo as well.

]2. Xenforo feature set:

The reason for us Xenforo is underwhelming is the fact there are compelling products that offer more. Woltlab Burning Board, for example, is almost half XF's price while offering nearly the same feature set and even more. The only reason I went XF(a 3rd time) was because of community request and I particularly wasn't fond of WBB's look/themes.

IP Board is about 35 dollars more than XF but it's plus is the fact that it offers a full suite of apps that can extend your forum and make it into a lot more.

IPB Vs XF...they are both forums but their approaches are a bit more different. XF focus mainly on forums and it does well enough but IP Board is more of a jack of all trades. Not necessarily a master or perfect but it has a bit of everything(Good and bad).

I dislike XF simply for the growing need of add-ons we require to replicate features found in competing software. As I mentioned earlier, early versions of XF lacked very simple features such as merging users, that you'd expect a forum software of $140 to have from the start.

While XF has came so far, it still finds itself playing catch up to features. One only has to look at their Have you seen forum to see this.
Have You Seen...?

While it is a cheap product compared o Vbulletin and IP Board, Xenforo(at least in our experience) begins to get pricier than even VB and IPB simply because in order to get the same feature set you have to start buying add-ons and they have their own renewal period as well as the forum software.

(Don't point this out to XF fans as they will quickly say you are simply adding add-ons to make XF look bad in favor of competing products.)

3. Xenforo's Apple like mentality

Several things in Xenforo make zero sense to me because instead of the developer's giving the admin the right to do as they wish for their community they remove the choice.

Biggest example....Profile posts. YOU ONLY GET 140 CHARACTERS. What does that sound like? Twitter? Exactly. Their reason being is that it makes it easier for post to post to twitter.

Okay, cool. Good to be forward with social networking. So why not let admins have the choice to do so, eh 🙂

I Can always download a friendly add-on for $5 to get the control I need...instead of it being core.

4. Lack of Compelling 1st party/Reliance on 3rd party

Let me start by saying, not every Invision Power product is perfect or great.....However you at least have the option of a cohesive product. IP Board(Forum), Commerce(Store), IP Downloads, IP Chat, IP Blog, IP Gallery, and IP Pages(CMS). At least you know that ALL products made by IPS will work together with little to no issue and that you don't have to really configure them and worry about Product A clashing with Product D because they are all made together.

Being 1st party is a major benefit...but as I said, not all IP products are created equally and some could use a lot more love and care and focus.

Xenforo pretty much doesn't offer much in the 1st party way that could accurately compete with IPB's entire suite and I am not entirely sure how it compares to WBB's suite of products.

It does have a gallery(which is really good) and a downloads application they call resource manager along with the forum itself. But you'll still find yourself with a reliance on 3rd party.

3rd party is not bad.....it actually gives those developer's more freedom. Of course with 3rd party, you run the risk of wanting to upgrade your software but unable to do so because the developer hasn't updated or has abandoned his app. Remember, there is a lot of shadiness with Xenforo developer's.

More importantly, whenever you need to find a simple feature, you are constantly told "No, it can't do that. But there is an add-on for it."

Your forum becomes bogged down with a bunch of add-ons because the software itself is anemic.

The chatroom solutions on Xenforo are abysmal, IMO.

5. Usability:

At least compared to IPB 4, As an admin the usability is annoying on XF.

No Mod Control panel...because many of the moderator actions are inline. That's cool but there are many things I am forced to log into the ACP to do that I can do from the Mod CP on IPB. Actually, I lied....there is $45 add-on that can give me a XF moderator control panel with a lot of features. Plus its $25 renewal.

Want to easily see how many and who all is in a usergroup? You have to go through hoops to do it when it is like 2 steps on IPB?

Want to set usergroup colors? Well on IPB, it's a simple hook you install. On XF, you have to not only install the hook but manually go into edit theme templates. If you have multiple themes, that becomes tedious.

Want to easily arrange the layout of the forum's boxes? Requires some tweaking. IPB4 simply has a drag and drop approach that allows you to move the boxes/modules around.

Forget to add a tag for someone (@User) can't do that. You can add it but it wont tag them. IPB4, simple edit and add @User and it'll tag them.

Want to easily delete your PMs from your inbox? There's no actual delete message. There's 'leave' conversation. I can also download an add-on for $45 that will give me a lot more features than XF does by default. Oh plus a yearly $25 renewal.

Want to allow your user's to change their name? By default, there is no feature. Yet another add-on 🙂

Maybe you want to have Animated Avatars? Might want to check to make sure your host/server has proper extension set up......Because you know unlike IPB, where you simply hit a toggle in the ACP to switch it on/off and then upload the image, I have to contact my host to let them know "I need this tweaked".

I can go on and on...But the biggest offender....

6. Usergroups:
User permissions in theory make a lot of sense. All users are in the default registered group and you can set permissions that way by utilizing secondary groups to do so.

Problem with this is, first of all the usability of permissions suck on XF. You sometimes go set permissions in the actual usergroup itself and then sometimes you have to go into options and go into the specific add-on to set permissions and everything right. I'd prefer IPB's way...you install the add-on and you toggle the permissions within that particular add-on.

Why? Because if you have a crap ton of Add-ons, you'll soon find your user group permission lists growing to the point where it becomes more difficult to find an add-on and its particular section for permissions.

Secondly, having to utilize secondary usergroups is annoying....You wind up having a user with like 20 different usergroups, let's say you run into an issue where there is a permission clash somewhere. You have to look in all the groups to find out where it clashes. More importantly, with those secondary usergroups, if you have usergroup styling set up for them, you have to set a display priority so the correct stylien and group shows as it should.

There's no reason why when someone is promoted to another usergroup they need to retain in the former group they just left? We're born infants, we grow into toddlers(no longer called infants), then so and so forth. A 80 year old is not considered a child.....however using XF's mentality, they are an Infant, a toddle, a child, a teen, a young adult, a middle-aged adult, a senior citizen, etc etc.

It's an utter mess and not user friendly.

As I said Xenforo itself is not a bad product. And it powers around 30-40 percent of the premium software world's forums based on various stats compared to IPB's 13 percent.

That doesn't make it better? In fact, I am willing to bet that IPS is still a more profitable company than XF is. But it's fanboys will have you think that Xenforo is god's gift to man. The developers are all Gods and the moderation team are kings.

In reality, it's a forum software that is pretty good but is not really much better than anything else. It's just pretty and even then Xenforo's stale and dated design makes almost every theme look a bit unattractive save pixelexit and Audentio themes.

3 times we tried XF....30 days so far.....and XF isn't anything revolutionary or exceptional. It's just...popular. So is Miley Cyrus and Kim Kardashian. Doesn't make them great people. It just means they are liked.

I appreciate Xenforo's ease of use for customizing styles. I appreciate the excellent notification system and I truly applaud Xenforo's cool add-ons such as post ratings. A lot of amazing mods but then so are IPB's 🙂 Without the developer scandal because IPS offers a bit more protection to users.

In the end, A lot of hype masks a product that is nowhere as amazing(FOR US) as its fans want to try and make everyone think it is.

 

[Darthmaul]

Hm. Very interesting post indeed. You bring up a lot of good points, and I think the main reason you find so much fault with the software is due to its stage in life. In my opinion, it's still relatively new and developing, compared to other software that has been around for ages. So there's a growing period still going on. Not to mention several years ago the company was crippled by the lawsuit eating up all the capital the company had.

Anyways, that's not really an excuse for why there's some core 1st party features missing, I'll give you that. And I think that a lot of add-on developers are taking advantage of people nowadays. Back when I had a license, there were almost no paid add-ons - everything was free. And if you had a paid add-on, you really got your money's worth, and they didn't over-charge you like I see a lot of people doing now.

As for some members being favored over others, I have a feeling it stems from loyalty. Loyalty to the company and software when it was in a time of need, and loyalty to the brand no matter what. I agree that this is wrong and that members should be disciplined equally, but I understand why it's happening.

As for permissions, I agree that they can get extremely complicated. However, once I got the hang of it they really weren't too difficult to configure. If you are jumping back and forth from different software, though, things can get very frustrating.

Nodes are a bit complicated where they don't really need to be, sure, but are they a burden to configure and move around? I don't think so. I've personally never worked with IPB and its admin panel, but Xenforo's system never really bothered me.

Overall, I absolutely understand your frustration. I think the main problem here is the surge in paid add-ons of the xenforo community. When I was running the software it was a pretty tight-knit group of developers releasing add-ons and most of them were free - like I mentioned - so I never really experienced this paywall that a lot of new xenforo users are seeing now.

But, I am a bit confused as to why you are denouncing the software for your forum(a completely valid thing to do, as you did try it). So you tried it 3 times, for a total of 30 days? Or 3 x 30 days? Because for me, three 10-day experiences with a software would not be NEAR enough time to even come close to understanding if it was right for me or not. To me, it sounds like you just didn't give yourself enough time to become familiar with the software.

However, I won't try to change your mind. The real heart of the matter is: what software do YOU like? In love with the IPS? Use it! Want to use Burning Boards? Go right ahead! It's your money! I will admit, I am one of these "Xenforo Fanboys" you so harshly refer to, but when it comes down to it all I can do is give you my opinion. I'm not going to flame anyone or harass anyone because they don't like xenforo. If you're going to shell out the money for a premium forum software(the best move a forum owner can make imo), then you need to make sure you're buying the software you like and that will work with your community.

Anyways, I hope you have good luck with your new software, and maybe one day you can return to xenforo. I would suggest starting a forum from scratch on it just to really get the feel for everything 🙂

 

[Izaya]

Oh I used it
2013- About 6ish months
2014- 3-4 months
2015- 30 days.

When we moved to it back in November 2015, I had fully decided to give it a shot and fully commit to it. But the community mostly hated it, I didn't like various aspect of it and I personally couldn't stand the support community.

That said, I am a fan of IPB but at the same time, IPS/IPB frustrates me and there are a few things I do appreciate(and miss) from Xenforo. But it was a choice of lesser or two evils and while IPS at times makes questionable choices, I've never found myself truly disgusted with the company or the support community to the degree I have with Xenforo.

You know I see that explanation a lot when Xenforo is being criticized.

1. It's young and still new compared to other software.....

I use a Windows Phone and proudly so. Compared to Android and IOS, it is new as it was released in 2010, then rebooted with a new version in 2012 and now 2015 with Windows 10. Yes it is new....and that excuse could work...in its first year. But I cant use the excuse that it is newer and that is why it lacks features.

IPB4 is new.....a complete rewrite and revamp but it doesn't get the free pass that Xenforo often gets. that's what is a double-standard.

in 2016, with Xenforo costing more than BB by nearly twice the price and almost as much as IPB, it is a fair comparison. Because this is a premium product being sold at a premium price.

Sure there are less developers working on Xenforo...but their fans will quickly use that as a Plus to say that "With less developers, they still are doing better than Vbulletin, IPB, etc etc." So you cant really have it two ways.

2. The Lawsuit

Wasn't that over in 2013 or 2014...it's been at least 2 years or so. It's time to let it go and stop using that as an excuse. Unfortunate it was, but at the same time, it is now 2016. That can't be the go to excuse as to why XF still lacks things. This software launched in 2010 without the ability to MERGE users.

The excuse being "It is not a feature that is used often."

Xenforo should be compared and criticized equally to its competitors...especially since it is the more popular software. It'd be different if it was a lesser known software that was just starting out and being compared to something bigger and better.

favoring people...it really shouldn't be a popularity contest. XF's community feels like high school and I left that awhile back...and many of the individuals there at least 2-3 times my age and they are behaving like kids in HS. Cliqueish and very elitist at times. Every XF customer has contributed and brought and supported the company. Loyalty and favoritism are two words that shouldn't be applied to the community.

My XF license is wasting away...I am just counting the days down till I can sell the sucker(I want to say March or April).

Snipped

 

[Darthmaul]

Oh I used it
2013- About 6ish months
2014- 3-4 months
2015- 30 days.

When we moved to it back in November 2015, I had fully decided to give it a shot and fully commit to it. But the community mostly hated it, I didn't like various aspect of it and I personally couldn't stand the support community.

That said, I am a fan of IPB but at the same time, IPS/IPB frustrates me and there are a few things I do appreciate(and miss) from Xenforo. But it was a choice of lesser or two evils and while IPS at times makes questionable choices, I've never found myself truly disgusted with the company or the support community to the degree I have with Xenforo.

Fair enough 🙂

You know I see that explanation a lot when Xenforo is being criticized.
1. It's young and still new compared to other software.....

I use a Windows Phone and proudly so. Compared to Android and IOS, it is new as it was released in 2010, then rebooted with a new version in 2012 and now 2015 with Windows 10. Yes it is new....and that excuse could work...in its first year. But I cant use the excuse that it is newer and that is why it lacks features.

IPB4 is new.....a complete rewrite and revamp but it doesn't get the free pass that Xenforo often gets. that's what is a double-standard.

in 2016, with Xenforo costing more than BB by nearly twice the price and almost as much as IPB, it is a fair comparison. Because this is a premium product being sold at a premium price.

Sure there are less developers working on Xenforo...but their fans will quickly use that as a Plus to say that "With less developers, they still are doing better than Vbulletin, IPB, etc etc." So you cant really have it two ways.

While your claim has some validity here, your examples don't reinforce your claim.

Windows phone: building off of software and a massive company that has been established since the early 1980s. Not only that, but Microsoft basically has unlimited capital to throw at the development of projects such as this, so development can be much quicker.

IPB: Established since 2002, also with a massive company behind it. Basically hundreds of versions and massive capital have allowed for creation of a strong and secure product.

Burning Boards: Established well before 2007. Not as large a company, but still plenty of time to create a great product.

Xenforo: Initial release in 2011. Lawsuit slowed development significantly, and was finally settled in 2013. So that's about 4 solid years of development by a 3-4 person team. You can't really expect the same level of product as the other examples you cited.

2. The Lawsuit

Wasn't that over in 2013 or 2014...it's been at least 2 years or so. It's time to let it go and stop using that as an excuse. Unfortunate it was, but at the same time, it is now 2016. That can't be the go to excuse as to why XF still lacks things. This software launched in 2010 without the ability to MERGE users.

Over in 2013, yes. Is 3 years enough time for a small team of developers to catch up and get to the point that all of these other large and established companies are? I definitely don't think so. I think that it's enough time to start on the right track and get headed in the right direction, which I think the team at xenforo definitely is doing.

As far as xenforo lacking certain features that you mentioned upon release, I didn't really notice much. I had one of the earlier versions of xenforo, and I don't think I had the user merge feature. I never really had a need for it personally, but I can see how the lack of that feature could be frustrating.

Xenforo should be compared and criticized equally to its competitors...especially since it is the more popular software. It'd be different if it was a lesser known software that was just starting out and being compared to something bigger and better.

So you're saying it should have the quality and strength of a 14 year old software because it's marketed as a premium software that aims to compete with these older and established brands? I don't think that's a fair claim. The fact that it's more well-known doesn't make it automatically have to be excellent.

Let's say I started a new promotion forum. All of the sudden it gets 1,000 users in only a few short weeks. Am I, then, supposed to be able to compete with FP's level of services and quality? Would people complain about there only being a few team members? Probably, and my rebuttal would be that the forum is new, and that it takes time to create the quality that people have come to expect with these larger more established brands..

favoring people...it really shouldn't be a popularity contest. XF's community feels like high school and I left that awhile back...and many of the individuals there at least 2-3 times my age and they are behaving like kids in HS. Cliqueish and very elitist at times. Every XF customer has contributed and brought and supported the company. Loyalty and favoritism are two words that shouldn't be applied to the community.

Ehh, I think you're exaggerating this a bit. While it can be annoying that there are some members who are good friends, you just need to learn how to handle the community. Sure that's probably not something you signed up for when you bought your license, and it's not great that it's an issue, but I've never had a problem with the people on the forum. As long as you know how to deal with things calmly and get in touch with the right people you won't have any problems.

My XF license is wasting away...I am just counting the days down till I can sell the sucker(I want to say March or April).

I would take it off your hands, but I don't have the time or money to invest in a forum! :lol:

 

[Tommy M.]

Xenforo has more good addons but some necessary addons that I need for my forum then it didn't have.

When you buy XF then you can start with low price but when you want to use good addons then you have to pay more, it is pretty expensive for a forum cms.

 

[Izaya]

While your claim has some validity here, your examples don't reinforce your claim.

Windows phone: building off of software and a massive company that has been established since the early 1980s. Not only that, but Microsoft basically has unlimited capital to throw at the development of projects such as this, so development can be much quicker.

IPB: Established since 2002, also with a massive company behind it. Basically hundreds of versions and massive capital have allowed for creation of a strong and secure product.

Burning Boards: Established well before 2007. Not as large a company, but still plenty of time to create a great product.

Xenforo: Initial release in 2011. Lawsuit slowed development significantly, and was finally settled in 2013. So that's about 4 solid years of development by a 3-4 person team. You can't really expect the same level of product as the other examples you cited.

Windows Phone didn't build off anything. It was an effectively new product(much like IPB4 is). Released in 2010...2 years after Android and 3 after IOS. Microsoft having the money to throw around is irrelevant, especially since now in 2016, it has been there to sustain said product but hasn't been enough to topple the Android/IOS duopoly.

Development is faster on Xenforo...look at what they have accomplished in 5 years time(and beta releases themselves were 2010...and let's be realistic, Xenforo I doubt was thrown together in a few months so this product was something that had been in the pipeline for ages before the beta release even came out in 2010).

Adoption has been faster on Xenforo compared to IPB.

As I said, you cant use Xenforo's 'youth' as a means of a defense when people rightfully point out its flaws and what it lacks. It is not 2011 anymore. And Xenforo is the leading forum software thus it is natural to compare the leading software to its competitors especially when it charges a high price.

I don't use IPB4 being a new product and a revamp as an excuse for any potential issues and bugs and things it lacks. Because that does the software no justice nor does it bring light to the fact that IPS should do and know better.

Also add in the fact that while Xenforo itself may be younger than VB, IPB, and WBB.....Kier and Mike and Ashley have been in this industry pretty much almost as or just as long. So again that is absolutely no excuse. These aren't some new and upcoming guys. These are guys who know what they are doing.

Over in 2013, yes. Is 3 years enough time for a small team of developers to catch up and get to the point that all of these other large and established companies are? I definitely don't think so. I think that it's enough time to start on the right track and get headed in the right direction, which I think the team at xenforo definitely is doing.

As far as xenforo lacking certain features that you mentioned upon release, I didn't really notice much. I had one of the earlier versions of xenforo, and I don't think I had the user merge feature. I never really had a need for it personally, but I can see how the lack of that feature could be frustrating.

Again small team of developer? Kier is basically god to the Ex-vbulletin/Xenforo crowd. Sure the numbers may be small but a the same time, this isn't some small start-up of guys who are working in their mom's basement. These are Pros.

It's unfortunate that they were sued(part of me wishes IB would have won for several reasons tbh). But you cant use that as an excuse because Xenforo has more than moved on and overcame that lawsuit.

It's been 3 years. Are we still going to be harping in 2023 about the lawsuit and the time XF lost? I could understand if after the trial, they had a hard time and not many successes to discuss. That obviously isn't true.

Fact is, the lawsuit and Xenforo's 'age' is a crutch its fans use to defend the product and I think it is a bit flawed.

So you're saying it should have the quality and strength of a 14 year old software because it's marketed as a premium software that aims to compete with these older and established brands? I don't think that's a fair claim. The fact that it's more well-known doesn't make it automatically have to be excellent.

Let's say I started a new promotion forum. All of the sudden it gets 1,000 users in only a few short weeks. Am I, then, supposed to be able to compete with FP's level of services and quality? Would people complain about there only being a few team members? Probably, and my rebuttal would be that the forum is new, and that it takes time to create the quality that people have come to expect with these larger more established brands..

Your analogy is flawed because it is missing a key component. Price. I am paying for Xenforo and IPB. Comparing two forums that no one is being paid or having to pay for use is not the same thing.

What am I saying is...a product that is a PREMIUM product that is costlier than some competitors(WBB) and almost as expensive as some others(IPB) should not launch missing basic forum features.

For the simple fact of the matter, if a small team of volunteer guys can create a product for FOSS and have features and capabilities...for a free product, then Xenforo should not be lacking STANDARD FORUM FEATURES.

Again, why are we using its age to mask the underlying problem. Because that is a poor defense to stand up on. And it is only used by Xenforo fans the majority of the time and if someone, say an IPB4 fan, would use the "it's still relatively new" excuse on the leading 'admin' forum, they'd get railroaded for it.

Ehh, I think you're exaggerating this a bit. While it can be annoying that there are some members who are good friends, you just need to learn how to handle the community. Sure that's probably not something you signed up for when you bought your license, and it's not great that it's an issue, but I've never had a problem with the people on the forum. As long as you know how to deal with things calmly and get in touch with the right people you won't have any problems.

I think you are downplaying it quite a bit. One has to look at the support forums themselves to see just how bad of a problem is. Xenforo members will attack(and have attacked) fellow Xenforo members for criticizing the software rightfully. People on the forum do not feel comfortable suggesting or complaining.

You have belligerent and arrogant support members...who when you point out their poor handling of situation, Xenforo fans are quick to defend and make excuses for (much like the product). No matter how much he or she has done for the community doesn't give them a right to be an arrogant individual to CLIENTS especially when the rules aren't being followed and applied equally by both.

I notice now they seem to be letting Chris be what seems to be 'Good Cop' these days and handling stuff/complaints. Just my opinion/observation.

I joined Xenforo as a client expecting a sense of....wait for it, Professionalism. I've been with IPS for just as long as Xenforo just about. I visited the WBB support forums. I 've been apart of some free software support forums.

I've yet to see the level of cliqueish, hive minded and outright catty behavior(From ADULTS at that) like I have on Xenforo. When you have people in your support forums, saying they are not comfortable with posting on the forums, that isn't them not knowing how to take the support forums.

That's the support forums needing to be better handled so that all people feel comfortable and not feeling as if they are on the outside of a circle because they don't stroke enough egos.

My XF license is wasting away...I am just counting the days down till I can sell the sucker(I want to say March or April).
I would take it off your hands, but I don't have the time or money to invest in a forum! :lol:

[/quote]

that would be awesome if you could 😛 But I cant transfer until March or April anyway lol.

 

[Izaya]

Xenforo has more good addons but some necessary addons that I need for my forum then it didn't have.

When you buy XF then you can start with low price but when you want to use good addons then you have to pay more, it is pretty expensive for a forum cms.

For us, while the base price is cheaper than IPB by $35 and the renewals were $10 more with IPB...by the time we had to download various add-ons that we needed(Not wanted), it was significantly more expensive than IPB and on top of that add in the add-ons renewals and it became even more expensive than IPB.

 

[Darthmaul]

I have tried several times to get my point across to you, but I guess you can't possibly see it. Which is fine. I just think your argument is based on flawed evidence, and despite trying to reason with you through it you just keep presenting the same evidence in a different manner.

I understand you had a bad experience, and I hope one day you can get past that. But no amount of evidence towards my argument will sway your point of view, and I accept that. I hope your forum works out.

 

[John]

It really depends on how your community is set-up. Some communities like vBulletin. I can assure you vB isn't as modern as IPB or XenForo is; however, some people still swear by it. I do prefer xF to IPB, personally. IPB is more expensive, and IPB4 isn't where XenForo is currently. For some people, IPB is what their community needs. XenForo really annoys me with things like being unable to ban without ACP access. IPB has that, and that's a pretty big thing to me.

I just want to say...this is solely based on my experience for the most part(though some of the things listed below have also been echoed by other forum admins who have used or still use XF as well). I know some XF fans get defensive and aren't open to criticism of the software 🙂


Background: We've given XF 3 chances. Once in 2013, Once In 2014 and Once in 2015...So we have more than enough experience with it.

Long review but detailed 😀

(I made this review back in December 2015, we've since moved back to IPB4)

Our experience with Xenforo has more or less stagnated activity as the community either flat out dislikes it or tolerates it enough to not flat out quit 😛

Let's get this out the way. Xenforo is not a bad software. It really isn't. It's actually really good. However, its fanboys will lead you to believe that because many sites are moving to it....that means it is the best. We all know popularity doesn't necessarily equate to being best. They'll lead you to believe that Xenforo is the only option...when there are some amazing products such as IP Board(3 and 4) and Woltlab Buring Board that do offer a lot more.

There are "fan boys" for everything. If someone likes something, they'll tell you about it. They probably won't tell you the negatives; because whatever someone else has is better than whatever you have. It's part of human nature. It's the same way with cars, sports teams, or phones.

For us? Why is it underwhelming?
1. The Support Community

As active as their community is and as helpful as their community is(as well as the excellent support response time), there is a recurring theme that if you so much as speak negatively against the product you find yourself attacked. You'll find yourself needing to be on the defensive when you rightfully criticize the product about what it lacks or various usability.

This thread shows what I mean(As well as another on the largest 'admin' site)
Negative responses on suggestion threads

Even speaking with longtime(Since Day 1) XF users, many will say it is a blessing and curse simply because while the support is great, the moderation team at times plays favorites with the fanboys allowing them a bit more free reign to do/say as they please to lesser known or lesser liked individuals.

Not to mention the scandals and what not some of the Xenforo developers have been involved in that definitely makes you nervous about downloading various add-ons. Do a google search. For such a young software, there is always drama going on. The company itself originated from drama(Vbulletin lawsuit)

Two big board forums(Anime forum with about 10,000,000 posts and a Korean Music forum with 11,000,000 posts) were considering a Xenforo switch but based on various things within the community as well as the sketchiness of various developers and Xenforo's delayed stance on various situations, they decided elsewhere. A 3rd big board Korean forum running IPb4 skipped a conversion to Xenforo as well.

XenForo is a very shady software; that's hard to deny. From Brivium to all the developer scandals, they've had their share of issues. The support forum on xF is a joke. I've never actually needed to use it, though. I can't say I've had an issue there, however.

]2. Xenforo feature set:

The reason for us Xenforo is underwhelming is the fact there are compelling products that offer more. Woltlab Burning Board, for example, is almost half XF's price while offering nearly the same feature set and even more. The only reason I went XF(a 3rd time) was because of community request and I particularly wasn't fond of WBB's look/themes.

IP Board is about 35 dollars more than XF but it's plus is the fact that it offers a full suite of apps that can extend your forum and make it into a lot more.

IPB Vs XF...they are both forums but their approaches are a bit more different. XF focus mainly on forums and it does well enough but IP Board is more of a jack of all trades. Not necessarily a master or perfect but it has a bit of everything(Good and bad).

I dislike XF simply for the growing need of add-ons we require to replicate features found in competing software. As I mentioned earlier, early versions of XF lacked very simple features such as merging users, that you'd expect a forum software of $140 to have from the start.

While XF has came so far, it still finds itself playing catch up to features. One only has to look at their Have you seen forum to see this.
Have You Seen...?

While it is a cheap product compared o Vbulletin and IP Board, Xenforo(at least in our experience) begins to get pricier than even VB and IPB simply because in order to get the same feature set you have to start buying add-ons and they have their own renewal period as well as the forum software.

(Don't point this out to XF fans as they will quickly say you are simply adding add-ons to make XF look bad in favor of competing products.)

Part of why I like XenForo is there's an add-on for everything. Part of the point of XenForo is it's a light, smooth software. It's meant to not have too much attached at the beginning. With that being said: Somehow xF has done an awesome job of having third party create add-ons for them. This allows customization. Instead of having a bunch of useless things you don't actually use, you can put add-ons on your forum and add what you actually want or need on there. This is the same as you said with the themes. xF has one of the best (if not the best) set of third party developers working for them. This allows you to get what you want; that could mean themes, add-ons, or even other customized thing you may need.

3. Xenforo's Apple like mentality

Several things in Xenforo make zero sense to me because instead of the developer's giving the admin the right to do as they wish for their community they remove the choice.

Biggest example....Profile posts. YOU ONLY GET 140 CHARACTERS. What does that sound like? Twitter? Exactly. Their reason being is that it makes it easier for post to post to twitter.

Okay, cool. Good to be forward with social networking. So why not let admins have the choice to do so, eh 🙂

I Can always download a friendly add-on for $5 to get the control I need...instead of it being core.

This I partly agree with. 140 is annoying; it really is. I do hope they allow you to chose how long you'd like it to be in the ACP after their next major update. I'm not failure with how WBB and IPB's system works there, but the more customization, the better. That's a pretty general rule.

4. Lack of Compelling 1st party/Reliance on 3rd party

Let me start by saying, not every Invision Power product is perfect or great.....However you at least have the option of a cohesive product. IP Board(Forum), Commerce(Store), IP Downloads, IP Chat, IP Blog, IP Gallery, and IP Pages(CMS). At least you know that ALL products made by IPS will work together with little to no issue and that you don't have to really configure them and worry about Product A clashing with Product D because they are all made together.

Being 1st party is a major benefit...but as I said, not all IP products are created equally and some could use a lot more love and care and focus.

Xenforo pretty much doesn't offer much in the 1st party way that could accurately compete with IPB's entire suite and I am not entirely sure how it compares to WBB's suite of products.

It does have a gallery(which is really good) and a downloads application they call resource manager along with the forum itself. But you'll still find yourself with a reliance on 3rd party.

3rd party is not bad.....it actually gives those developer's more freedom. Of course with 3rd party, you run the risk of wanting to upgrade your software but unable to do so because the developer hasn't updated or has abandoned his app. Remember, there is a lot of shadiness with Xenforo developer's.

More importantly, whenever you need to find a simple feature, you are constantly told "No, it can't do that. But there is an add-on for it."

Your forum becomes bogged down with a bunch of add-ons because the software itself is anemic.

The chatroom solutions on Xenforo are abysmal, IMO.

Again, I don't see this as an issue. IPB and XenForo are made completely differently. xF is a software made to customize, and IPB is a software made to have most everything already there. There are advantages to both. I don't use many add-ons at all, so xF works fine for me. It's what your and your community needs, though. If you're looking for a software with a-lot already on it, IPB is what you need. If you're looking for a software where you can do pretty much whatever you want with it, xF is your thing.

5. Usability:

At least compared to IPB 4, As an admin the usability is annoying on XF.

No Mod Control panel...because many of the moderator actions are inline. That's cool but there are many things I am forced to log into the ACP to do that I can do from the Mod CP on IPB. Actually, I lied....there is $45 add-on that can give me a XF moderator control panel with a lot of features. Plus its $25 renewal.

Want to easily see how many and who all is in a usergroup? You have to go through hoops to do it when it is like 2 steps on IPB?

Want to set usergroup colors? Well on IPB, it's a simple hook you install. On XF, you have to not only install the hook but manually go into edit theme templates. If you have multiple themes, that becomes tedious.

Want to easily arrange the layout of the forum's boxes? Requires some tweaking. IPB4 simply has a drag and drop approach that allows you to move the boxes/modules around.

Forget to add a tag for someone (@User) can't do that. You can add it but it wont tag them. IPB4, simple edit and add @User and it'll tag them.

Want to easily delete your PMs from your inbox? There's no actual delete message. There's 'leave' conversation. I can also download an add-on for $45 that will give me a lot more features than XF does by default. Oh plus a yearly $25 renewal.

Want to allow your user's to change their name? By default, there is no feature. Yet another add-on 🙂

Maybe you want to have Animated Avatars? Might want to check to make sure your host/server has proper extension set up......Because you know unlike IPB, where you simply hit a toggle in the ACP to switch it on/off and then upload the image, I have to contact my host to let them know "I need this tweaked".

I can go on and on...But the biggest offender....

On xF, you can edit the colors with CSS code in the ACP after you get the "All rich usernames" add-on. Also, tagging a user in XenForo is just @Username. It's pretty easy, and one of my favorite xF features.

6. Usergroups:
User permissions in theory make a lot of sense. All users are in the default registered group and you can set permissions that way by utilizing secondary groups to do so.

Problem with this is, first of all the usability of permissions suck on XF. You sometimes go set permissions in the actual usergroup itself and then sometimes you have to go into options and go into the specific add-on to set permissions and everything right. I'd prefer IPB's way...you install the add-on and you toggle the permissions within that particular add-on.

Why? Because if you have a crap ton of Add-ons, you'll soon find your user group permission lists growing to the point where it becomes more difficult to find an add-on and its particular section for permissions.

Secondly, having to utilize secondary usergroups is annoying....You wind up having a user with like 20 different usergroups, let's say you run into an issue where there is a permission clash somewhere. You have to look in all the groups to find out where it clashes. More importantly, with those secondary usergroups, if you have usergroup styling set up for them, you have to set a display priority so the correct stylien and group shows as it should.

There's no reason why when someone is promoted to another usergroup they need to retain in the former group they just left? We're born infants, we grow into toddlers(no longer called infants), then so and so forth. A 80 year old is not considered a child.....however using XF's mentality, they are an Infant, a toddle, a child, a teen, a young adult, a middle-aged adult, a senior citizen, etc etc.

It's an utter mess and not user friendly.

I've never had this issue. How many add-ons were you using? I'm only running 2 user related add-ons, and as long as you do a decent job of setting up the permissions, it isn't a huge issue.

As I said Xenforo itself is not a bad product. And it powers around 30-40 percent of the premium software world's forums based on various stats compared to IPB's 13 percent.

That doesn't make it better? In fact, I am willing to bet that IPS is still a more profitable company than XF is. But it's fanboys will have you think that Xenforo is god's gift to man. The developers are all Gods and the moderation team are kings.

In reality, it's a forum software that is pretty good but is not really much better than anything else. It's just pretty and even then Xenforo's stale and dated design makes almost every theme look a bit unattractive save pixelexit and Audentio themes.

3 times we tried XF....30 days so far.....and XF isn't anything revolutionary or exceptional. It's just...popular. So is Miley Cyrus and Kim Kardashian. Doesn't make them great people. It just means they are liked.

I appreciate Xenforo's ease of use for customizing styles. I appreciate the excellent notification system and I truly applaud Xenforo's cool add-ons such as post ratings. A lot of amazing mods but then so are IPB's 🙂 Without the developer scandal because IPS offers a bit more protection to users.

I still have yet to have most of the issues you've mentioned. However, I'll say this again: Some communities love vB, some love xF, and some like IPB. It shouldn't matter to you, as an admin, which software this is, as long as your community is happy.

 

[DirtRider]

I have run a lot of different software and to date I would say XF is by far the best I have had. The support is great with some very good developers doing ad ons so I must say that for what I am wanting it sure does tick all the boxes.

 

[Cosmic]

I definitely agree with some of the points you made. XenForo has a lot of problems as a software. The main issue that I have with them is what you called the apple-like mentality, in that they their software is very-strongly designed to shoe-horn you into using forums like they intend you to use them.

For example, you need to install a plugin to allow moderators to ban people, aside from the "mark as spam" function. Also, I agree that the lack of an MCP is pretty annoying. The XenForo team pretty much decides for you what a moderator can and can't do, and I don't like that.

As a UX designer myself, I have a lot of respect for some of the design elements in XenForo. Strictly from a user standpoint, their software is the most usable out there. But from an admin standpoint, the lack of options is indeed a problem. Website owners are an audience that want to be able to customize everything. Offering a large amount of settings is crucial in giving the site owner a sense of control over their site. It's also a software maker's responsibility to provide a reasonable set of options that allow the user to customize their experience. Even apple is pretty good about giving users options for customizing things, and their audience are end users, not site administrators.

Long term, I think IPS is a better company with a better product. Long term at least. IPB 4.0 though is new, and doesn't really feel that stable to me. Personally, I feel that XenForo is slightly in the lead at the moment, but IPS will prevail in the long-haul. One of my favorite things about IPS is the support they offer. They have truly high-quality assistance when you submit a support ticket. I pointed out an issue with my site, and the person who responded to my ticket not only fixed it, but also passed the issue along to the development team. That's impressive support, to me. And it's something that you can only get when you buy commercial-quality software from a company like IPS or cPanel.

 

[Izaya]

It really depends on how your community is set-up. Some communities like vBulletin. I can assure you vB isn't as modern as IPB or XenForo is; however, some people still swear by it. I do prefer xF to IPB, personally. IPB is more expensive, and IPB4 isn't where XenForo is currently. For some people, IPB is what their community needs. XenForo really annoys me with things like being unable to ban without ACP access. IPB has that, and that's a pretty big thing to me.

IPB4 not being near where XF is...is like me saying XF isn't where IPB4 is. It's a subjective statement with little to no actual factual basis as it can and does differ between the individuals.


Well like I said..forum to forum, there is a $35 price difference between the two but once we had to start plugging in holes of features that XF lacked with plugins with their own renewals, I quickly found out that many people who are fans of XF who use the "its cheaper" as a pro really are only half correct.

it is cheaper...when you don't have to use plugins. For an IPB admin to get the same featureset from Xenforo(keep in mind, most features are core) you'd have then
1. Buy add-ons to fill in the holes
2. Hope that developer doesn't abandon the add-on
3. Hope that the add-on then plays nicely with all the others you had.

There are "fan boys" for everything. If someone likes something, they'll tell you about it. They probably won't tell you the negatives; because whatever someone else has is better than whatever you have. It's part of human nature. It's the same way with cars, sports teams, or phones.

Not really exactly the best example. Yes, there are fanboys of any and everything. That's expected and there is nothing wrong with fanboys in and of itself.

There is something wrong when those fanboys are negatively turning against individuals WITHIN their own community(and the moderation is either willfully ignorant or turning a blind eye to make excuses or exceptions for those who are 'loyal' as per the person's post above). That is what I am referring to and that is what the issue is.

I linked a direct thread from the XF support forum and I figured it'd be against the rules so I didn't do it, but there is a continuation of said thread on TAZ which expands upon the Xf thread...that showcases tha mentality.

Do keep in mind, while fanboys exist, you don't see quite as much hostility and negativity from the Open Source communities or IPB or WBB as you do with Xenforo.

Part of why I like XenForo is there's an add-on for everything. Part of the point of XenForo is it's a light, smooth software. It's meant to not have too much attached at the beginning. With that being said: Somehow xF has done an awesome job of having third party create add-ons for them. This allows customization. Instead of having a bunch of useless things you don't actually use, you can put add-ons on your forum and add what you actually want or need on there. This is the same as you said with the themes. xF has one of the best (if not the best) set of third party developers working for them. This allows you to get what you want; that could mean themes, add-ons, or even other customized thing you may need.

There is a difference in an add-on for everything and needing an add-on for everything because the software itself is lacking.

I also sort of feel it is a slight cop-out. When a product lacks features that most competitors have had for years, is that truly a Pro? Are we going to now start saying lacking features is okay if we have to pay additional cash to get said features?

It's awesome to have a great 3rd party ecosystem. Take a look at Google's android OS. Amazing 3rd party ecosystem....but the first party ecosystem isn't exactly lacking features these days. Your 3rd party ecosystem should be an extension of your product...not spackle to fill in deficiencies and holes.

Ironically, when the same logic is applied to IPB4 with the fact it is a new product that is encouraging 3rd part ecosystems, I notice XF fans usually use the logic of "Well, you need a plug-in for this or that" with IPB4. Which is a double-standard and hypocrisy.

Again, I don't see this as an issue. IPB and XenForo are made completely differently. xF is a software made to customize, and IPB is a software made to have most everything already there. There are advantages to both. I don't use many add-ons at all, so xF works fine for me. It's what your and your community needs, though. If you're looking for a software with a-lot already on it, IPB is what you need. If you're looking for a software where you can do pretty much whatever you want with it, xF is your thing.

But that implies you can't do whatever you want with IPB like you can with XF? I have yet to find much restrictions in what I cant do with IPb4...I have however ran into the issue several times as well with XF...unless I downloaded an add-on.

That also indirectly implies that XF is lacking in comparison(which sort of contradicts your earlier statement that IPB4 is not where Xenforo is currently as well) if IPB is more all-inclusive as per your words.

On xF, you can edit the colors with CSS code in the ACP after you get the "All rich usernames" add-on. Also, tagging a user in XenForo is just @Username. It's pretty easy, and one of my favorite xF features.

I know how it works 😛 But the difference is the ease of use. The Get in, Get out with IPB vs having to constantly edit things with Xenforo. Case in point, we had 6-8 themes and what not.

In order to get the usernames to show on Xenforo on all 6-8 themes...I had to manually take the time to go into edit every single theme's CSS.

On IPB4, I literally had to install I believe 1 or 2 mods(through the ACP) and within 30 seconds. I was done.

About the tagging/mention...it works the same way on IPB as it does on XF.
The difference is, let's say I forgot to tag you John....I can't just go back and add you into the post. Yeah, you can do it technically but you will not get alerted on Xenforo.

I can go back 3 days later to a post on IPB and edit @John in and it'll tag you so you see it. That's what I was referring to about that.

I've never had this issue. How many add-ons were you using? I'm only running 2 user related add-ons, and as long as you do a decent job of setting up the permissions, it isn't a huge issue.

Well as you said, you used two 😛
I believe we had about 20-30 add-ons.

(And don't get me started on the fact that the settings for these add-ons are all over the place. Some permissions are in the USer Permissions and then some permissions are in Options. Not in any particular order it seems, so I find myself having to scan through options to find what I am looking for.

I still have yet to have most of the issues you've mentioned. However, I'll say this again: Some communities love vB, some love xF, and some like IPB. It shouldn't matter to you, as an admin, which software this is, as long as your community is happy.

I am misunderstanding this part 🙂 It wasn't about having the same issues as I don't expect anyone to unless we run the same community with the same userbase with the same complaints 🙂

I definitely agree with some of the points you made. XenForo has a lot of problems as a software. The main issue that I have with them is what you called the apple-like mentality, in that they their software is very-strongly designed to shoe-horn you into using forums like they intend you to use them.

For example, you need to install a plugin to allow moderators to ban people, aside from the "mark as spam" function. Also, I agree that the lack of an MCP is pretty annoying. The XenForo team pretty much decides for you what a moderator can and can't do, and I don't like that.

As a UX designer myself, I have a lot of respect for some of the design elements in XenForo. Strictly from a user standpoint, their software is the most usable out there. But from an admin standpoint, the lack of options is indeed a problem. Website owners are an audience that want to be able to customize everything. Offering a large amount of settings is crucial in giving the site owner a sense of control over their site. It's also a software maker's responsibility to provide a reasonable set of options that allow the user to customize their experience. Even apple is pretty good about giving users options for customizing things, and their audience are end users, not site administrators.

Long term, I think IPS is a better company with a better product. Long term at least. IPB 4.0 though is new, and doesn't really feel that stable to me. Personally, I feel that XenForo is slightly in the lead at the moment, but IPS will prevail in the long-haul. One of my favorite things about IPS is the support they offer. They have truly high-quality assistance when you submit a support ticket. I pointed out an issue with my site, and the person who responded to my ticket not only fixed it, but also passed the issue along to the development team. That's impressive support, to me. And it's something that you can only get when you buy commercial-quality software from a company like IPS or cPanel.

Thanks for the response 🙂 I am actually planning to do an IPB4 review where i'll be both critical and praising of various things as I do feel it is only fair. Trust me, I am not a blind fanboy and IPS makes such bonehead moves sometimes but they are a good company as you stated above!

I have tried several times to get my point across to you, but I guess you can't possibly see it. Which is fine. I just think your argument is based on flawed evidence, and despite trying to reason with you through it you just keep presenting the same evidence in a different manner.

I understand you had a bad experience, and I hope one day you can get past that. But no amount of evidence towards my argument will sway your point of view, and I accept that. I hope your forum works out.

I think it is slightly dismissive to say my opinion is based on flawed evidence...considering the evidence is based on my experience, three times over nearly a 3 year period 🙂 I don't think that's flawed and I do think that has given me a well-experienced opinion about why I dislike it and why most of all my community dislikes it.

I also wasn't aware that you were trying to reason with me lol. About my opinion at that, as this review is based of my experience and not looking for me to be persuaded or anything of the sort.

 

[J0hnDoe]

nice

 

[MasterA]

1. The Support Community

As active as their community is and as helpful as their community is(as well as the excellent support response time), there is a recurring theme that if you so much as speak negatively against the product you find yourself attacked. You'll find yourself needing to be on the defensive when you rightfully criticize the product about what it lacks or various usability.

This thread shows what I mean(As well as another on the largest 'admin' site)
Negative responses on suggestion threads

Even speaking with longtime(Since Day 1) XF users, many will say it is a blessing and curse simply because while the support is great, the moderation team at times plays favorites with the fanboys allowing them a bit more free reign to do/say as they please to lesser known or lesser liked individuals.

Not to mention the scandals and what not some of the Xenforo developers have been involved in that definitely makes you nervous about downloading various add-ons. Do a google search. For such a young software, there is always drama going on. The company itself originated from drama(Vbulletin lawsuit)

Two big board forums(Anime forum with about 10,000,000 posts and a Korean Music forum with 11,000,000 posts) were considering a Xenforo switch but based on various things within the community as well as the sketchiness of various developers and Xenforo's delayed stance on various situations, they decided elsewhere. A 3rd big board Korean forum running IPb4 skipped a conversion to Xenforo as well.

This is a fair point. However after all, you don't have to stay active on the Xenforo Community if you don't like it there. I think the forum software and support is far more important and both seems to be quite good. You also don't need to be involved in the drama if you dislike it.

]2. Xenforo feature set:

The reason for us Xenforo is underwhelming is the fact there are compelling products that offer more. Woltlab Burning Board, for example, is almost half XF's price while offering nearly the same feature set and even more. The only reason I went XF(a 3rd time) was because of community request and I particularly wasn't fond of WBB's look/themes.

IP Board is about 35 dollars more than XF but it's plus is the fact that it offers a full suite of apps that can extend your forum and make it into a lot more.

IPB Vs XF...they are both forums but their approaches are a bit more different. XF focus mainly on forums and it does well enough but IP Board is more of a jack of all trades. Not necessarily a master or perfect but it has a bit of everything(Good and bad).

I dislike XF simply for the growing need of add-ons we require to replicate features found in competing software. As I mentioned earlier, early versions of XF lacked very simple features such as merging users, that you'd expect a forum software of $140 to have from the start.

While XF has came so far, it still finds itself playing catch up to features. One only has to look at their Have you seen forum to see this.
Have You Seen...?

While it is a cheap product compared o Vbulletin and IP Board, Xenforo(at least in our experience) begins to get pricier than even VB and IPB simply because in order to get the same feature set you have to start buying add-ons and they have their own renewal period as well as the forum software.

(Don't point this out to XF fans as they will quickly say you are simply adding add-ons to make XF look bad in favor of competing products.)

Another very good point. However, remember that Xenforo was founded in 2010, while IPB was founded in 2002. If you compare Xenforo 1.5 with IPB 4.1, obviously IPB has more features. If you compare Xenforo 1.5 with IPB 1.5, then I am sure Xenforo is doing a very good job in terms of features.

3. Xenforo's Apple like mentality

Several things in Xenforo make zero sense to me because instead of the developer's giving the admin the right to do as they wish for their community they remove the choice.

Biggest example....Profile posts. YOU ONLY GET 140 CHARACTERS. What does that sound like? Twitter? Exactly. Their reason being is that it makes it easier for post to post to twitter.

Okay, cool. Good to be forward with social networking. So why not let admins have the choice to do so, eh 🙂

I Can always download a friendly add-on for $5 to get the control I need...instead of it being core.

I agree with this point.

4. Lack of Compelling 1st party/Reliance on 3rd party

Let me start by saying, not every Invision Power product is perfect or great.....However you at least have the option of a cohesive product. IP Board(Forum), Commerce(Store), IP Downloads, IP Chat, IP Blog, IP Gallery, and IP Pages(CMS). At least you know that ALL products made by IPS will work together with little to no issue and that you don't have to really configure them and worry about Product A clashing with Product D because they are all made together.

Being 1st party is a major benefit...but as I said, not all IP products are created equally and some could use a lot more love and care and focus.

Xenforo pretty much doesn't offer much in the 1st party way that could accurately compete with IPB's entire suite and I am not entirely sure how it compares to WBB's suite of products.

It does have a gallery(which is really good) and a downloads application they call resource manager along with the forum itself. But you'll still find yourself with a reliance on 3rd party.

3rd party is not bad.....it actually gives those developer's more freedom. Of course with 3rd party, you run the risk of wanting to upgrade your software but unable to do so because the developer hasn't updated or has abandoned his app. Remember, there is a lot of shadiness with Xenforo developer's.

More importantly, whenever you need to find a simple feature, you are constantly told "No, it can't do that. But there is an add-on for it."

Your forum becomes bogged down with a bunch of add-ons because the software itself is anemic.

The chatroom solutions on Xenforo are abysmal, IMO.

I agree with this point as well but by the time, Xenforo releases 3.0 or 4.0, there may be more 1st party products. They are less developed than their competitors and newer in the market so I wouldn't be surprised if this is a feature in the future due to demand.

5. Usability:

At least compared to IPB 4, As an admin the usability is annoying on XF.

No Mod Control panel...because many of the moderator actions are inline. That's cool but there are many things I am forced to log into the ACP to do that I can do from the Mod CP on IPB. Actually, I lied....there is $45 add-on that can give me a XF moderator control panel with a lot of features. Plus its $25 renewal.

Want to easily see how many and who all is in a usergroup? You have to go through hoops to do it when it is like 2 steps on IPB?

Want to set usergroup colors? Well on IPB, it's a simple hook you install. On XF, you have to not only install the hook but manually go into edit theme templates. If you have multiple themes, that becomes tedious.

Want to easily arrange the layout of the forum's boxes? Requires some tweaking. IPB4 simply has a drag and drop approach that allows you to move the boxes/modules around.

Forget to add a tag for someone (@User) can't do that. You can add it but it wont tag them. IPB4, simple edit and add @User and it'll tag them.

Want to easily delete your PMs from your inbox? There's no actual delete message. There's 'leave' conversation. I can also download an add-on for $45 that will give me a lot more features than XF does by default. Oh plus a yearly $25 renewal.

Want to allow your user's to change their name? By default, there is no feature. Yet another add-on 🙂

Maybe you want to have Animated Avatars? Might want to check to make sure your host/server has proper extension set up......Because you know unlike IPB, where you simply hit a toggle in the ACP to switch it on/off and then upload the image, I have to contact my host to let them know "I need this tweaked".

I can go on and on...But the biggest offender....

Can't agree more with this point and I think this is very annoying and one very big disadvantage with Xenforo. However, atm IPB is not stable with their version 4 release and vBulletin is pretty "meh".

 

[khachlamat]

xenforo is perfect choice. It very good with $140