Abortion

@Irviding: You can keep on telling yourself that. a common characteristic of those who are guilty and/or uncertain is that they keep telling themselves that what they did or what they support is not cruel or wrong. Example: "Walmart is big! They won't miss the candy bar". That sounds like "The thing isn't alive, it wouldn't feel any pain" to me. you can either argue that it is about the child's rights or about the mothers rights and here are the answers to both:

Child: Let it live and then have someone else adopt it. Even if it takes years for it to find a family, isn't that better than dying?

Mother: Then why can't mothers abort their 12 year olds?
 
Just because a baby needs it's mother for 9 months, doesn't mean it isn't alive during those 9 months. If I were to go to a hospital and see somebody on life support, they're still alive yet they need help from a machine.
 
But why do you have the right to force a woman to do that with her body? And better yet why do you have the right to force a woman to put a baby up for adoption rather than do what she wants with it?

Really all it is is a lump of biomass and cells... it's not like we're killing a 12 year old.
 
I don't have to right to make her put it up for adoption. She can keep it or put it up for adoption.

Technically speaking, we are all a mass of cells.
 
So, if she has the right to kill her child, whether it is physically locate din the womb or not, does that mean I can pull out my gun and shoot you right between the eyes? Unless you can prove that a child still in the womb has no "existence", it's the same as murder to me. You are advocating a woman's right to cold-blooded murder.
 
First, to kirisute, she has the right to do what she wants, because it's her womb, her body, and her potential offspring. Up to 6 months (and also in rare cases like for example, the mother will die if she gives birth to the baby, etc) she can abort it or keep it. No forced mammograms, no nothing. She can walk into a clinic and have it done. You have no right to tell her she can't. You can call her a sick disgusting bitch all you want, but you cannot argue with the constitutional right to privacy.

To cosmic, you are still over dramatizing the hell out of this. We're not talking about after 8 months of pregnancy, a woman walking into a clinic and saying "abort this plz" when it can potentially be taken out of the womb and live and breath and be perfectly healthy.

A fetus lives solely off of its mother. The mother provides it with everything it needs to live. It is a part of her body.

Your gun example is a ridiculous and as I stated about 15 times an over dramatic one.
 
@Irviding: Until you are 18 you still feed off of your mother like a leech.

A fetus lives solely off of its mother. The mother provides it with everything it needs to live. It is a part of her body.
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Actually, it's not quite that simple. There is no boolean value for "livingBeing" which is changed the second the child exits the womb.

Tell me, which exact day does a child become a living being?
 
Cosmic said:
@Irviding: Until you are 18 you still feed off of your mother like a leech.

A fetus lives solely off of its mother. The mother provides it with everything it needs to live. It is a part of her body.
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Actually, it's not quite that simple. There is no boolean value for "livingBeing" which is changed the second the child exits the womb.

Tell me, which exact day does a child become a living being?
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When it can provide for itself outside of the womb. 6 months is a general rule of thumb, and also the policy that most states have as a limit for abortions.
 
Erm... no? Put a child out in the woods at 6 months old and you'll find it will die very quickly. A child has to be 18 *years* old before it can support itself. 16 minimum. Until they, the child will still rely on the mother for support and food. Yet the mother cannot "Abort" the child after its born.
 
I'd actually disagree with that post. I'd say around 12 one doesn't need support (say a plane goes down, child is all that survives. A fictitious example is the book Hatchet).

But what about people on life support? Is it ok to abort them? They need the machine to survive, and thus cannot support themselves.
 
Yes it is ok to abort people on life support. If the person's family member (spouse/parent) wants the person to not spend the rest of his/her life as a vegetable, then yes, that is perfectly allowed.

I mean 6 months because that's when the lump of cells actually forms human features. There have been babies born and survived 6 months in.
 
However there are people that are on life support for reletively short periods of time. Should somebody be allowed to remove their spouse from life support if they are still on life support, but rapidly improving, in order to get a large insurance settlement? Where should the line be drawn?

And by abort somebody on life support, I mean in the same way an abortionist does it. Would a judge consider that murder, or would it be fine?
 
Kirisute Gomen said:
However there are people that are on life support for reletively short periods of time. Should somebody be allowed to remove their spouse from life support if they are still on life support, but rapidly improving, in order to get a large insurance settlement? Where should the line be drawn?

And by abort somebody on life support, I mean in the same way an abortionist does it. Would a judge consider that murder, or would it be fine?
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I don't believe there is an option to drop someone from life support if he/she is rapidly improving and is determined to get better. If however the person is not going to live then a spouse or parent has every right to give that OK. My cousin got in a car accident 4 years ago and suffered severe brain damage. They kept him in the hospital for a little over a week looking for a way to bring him back. There was nothing. It brings back a very sad part of my life, but that's how it happened. There was no hope and no way to bring him back. The doctors gave my aunt the option to cut off his life support. She took that option and she donated had his organs donated. His organs saved two peoples' lives. Those two people have done nothing but send flowers, cards, even money to my family.

So yes, I will continue to support this. Even though it is a touchy subject for me, I believe I am very entitled to my opinion on this matter.

Anyway.. what do you mean by the way an abortionist does it? A perfectly humane procedure?

If you'd prefer we can make it illegal and instead task Dr. Metal Coat Hanger with the task. He'll sure get an gigantic increase in patients. I hear that Doctor Baseball Bat and Nurse Random Person Hitting You With A Baseball Bat are also planning to cash in on this.
 
I'm sorry to hear about your cousin. While I've never had to be in the situation as your aunt, I can't imagine how hard it must have been. I know that after a while in some cases life support has to be cut. However it is great that his organs have been donated, and saved others lives.


The way that I was talking about "how an abortionist does it" is exactly how they do it. While I find abortion very ethically wrong, I think if somebody wanted one, there should be a much more humane procedure than inflicting chemical burns on the baby, and ripping its head and limbs from its body using a high power suction. Perhaps stopping the heart first?

And with the advances in the medical field, if abortion was made illegal again, it probably wouldn't go back to hitting a woman's uterus with a blunt object or inserting objects in. Just like how taking heroin is illegal, but yet there are many ways to obtain sterile needles so that one doesn't get HIV.
 
Kirisute Gomen said:
I'm sorry to hear about your cousin. While I've never had to be in the situation as your aunt, I can't imagine how hard it must have been. I know that after a while in some cases life support has to be cut. However it is great that his organs have been donated, and saved others lives.


The way that I was talking about "how an abortionist does it" is exactly how they do it. While I find abortion very ethically wrong, I think if somebody wanted one, there should be a much more humane procedure than inflicting chemical burns on the baby, and ripping its head and limbs from its body using a high power suction. Perhaps stopping the heart first?

And with the advances in the medical field, if abortion was made illegal again, it probably wouldn't go back to hitting a woman's uterus with a blunt object or inserting objects in. Just like how taking heroin is illegal, but yet there are many ways to obtain sterile needles so that one doesn't get HIV.
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Do we really want to take that chance?

And the people who do heroin with sterile needles are a very small population of the total who do heroin. The people on the street who buy heroin are the main demographic of heroin users. Not the billionaires.
 
Many places in inner cities (at least the way National Geographic put it) have places to deposit used needles, get sterile needles. That's the way NatGeo put it, I haven't been to a major city in a year or two, and I don't look to get high when I go there.
 
I've heard of those, but to be honest, the junkie who wants to get high can give a crap about a sterilized needle. And that junkie is what consists of the majority of drug users.
 
Kirisute Gomen said:
Many places in inner cities (at least the way National Geographic put it) have places to deposit used needles, get sterile needles. That's the way NatGeo put it, I haven't been to a major city in a year or two, and I don't look to get high when I go there.
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Like Irving said a junkie won't give a fuck about sterile needles, they just want their fix. If your gonna die from heroin most likely anyway, it doesn't matter if you get AIDS in the process or not.
 
I say scoop out the fetus at 4 days old, and probe around it's little gooey blob of a body to extract the stem cells, then have specialists inject those cells into a paraplegic's spinal chord and wait...and wait some more....and eventually get up and get himself a cup of coffee and take himself to the bathroom.

-Rich
 
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