Abortion
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USAPoliticsForumCom
Familiar Face
Nathan said:
How is adoption "as bad....if not worse" than abortion? Being pro-abortion is not being "pro-choice". Pro-choice is a term drummed up by the progressive liberals to soften what abortion truly is. Abortion is killing a baby. Period!
USAPoliticsForumCom said:
Because the child is going to grow up with parents which aren't the biological parents.. Which in itself doesn't mean anything, but it almost always causes problems later down the track. Imagine finding out that you're the child of a rape case.. I don't think that'll go down well..
USAPoliticsForumCom said:
I too would love to know how adoption is worse than aborting a child?
I mean, I know many people who have adopted and those kids are well taken care of...
USAPoliticsForumCom
Familiar Face
I'd like to see some statistical evidence of that to back up your claim that adoption "almost always causes problems later down the track".Nathan said:
Here are just a few examples of adopted children:
John Lennon
Bill Clinton (yes the president)
Nelson Mandela
Marilyn Monroe
shall I go on?? Ok
Ray Liotta
Babe Ruth
Sarah McLachlan
Faith Hill
Steve Jobs
Now if any of those people were aborted because "adoption almost always causes problems", how do you think it might have changed the course of history?
In addition....an adopted baby has a chance at life and achieving greatness. An aborted (murdered) baby has ZERO chance for anything.
Nathan said:
Funny.
My dad grew up in the foster system. That was the foster system where it was perfectly fine to beat your children in public and no one would even glare at you for doing so. He was victim to many beatings. He grew up fine, raised me right and is proud to be a dad.
What if that child born of rape could care less that their adoptive family are not their real family and they grow up to be someone who gets a great job, makes their family rich and helps others?
Should they still should of been put to death?
But hey, I can't decide the choice of a woman or anyone for that manner. If I could I wouldn't, I'd lean towards them making the choice on their own. I'd rather give my own life than the life of my potential child though and I am not even a parent.
USAPoliticsForumCom
Familiar Face
Nathan, it's your belief that if a baby isn't going to have his/her biological parents raise them, it's acceptable to put them to death? Am I understanding you correctly?Nathan said:
USAPoliticsForumCom said:
You couldn't be more wrong. As I said, stop taking what I have said out of context.
I'm merely saying a child which is conceived through indecent means such as rape, or conceived by parents which cannot raise the child appropriate should have the ability to abort if necessary. It's not murder, it's logic. Why bring a baby into the world when you can't look after it, and no, someone else should not look after it for you (unless it's planned.)
USAPoliticsForumCom
Familiar Face
Nathan said:
Nathan, you just made my argument for me. You said a "child which is conceived" so you are obviously aware that there is a child involved in this process. Abortion is referring to the pregnancy. You "abort" the pregnancy not the baby. How do you abort a pregnancy? You kill the baby. Correct? I'll give you an example of parents who were financially unable to "look after it". Me and my ex wife. She got pregnant at 19. I was making next to nothing for money and there was no way we could afford to take care of a baby. Guess what....we managed. Now have 3 kids and our first graduated college with high honors and a with degree in Degree in Criminal Justice. He is also married and a Sr. Airman in the USAF Security Forces. So should we have aborted??? Using your argument, we should have and a lot of people with your acceptance of abortion would have.
USAPoliticsForumCom
Familiar Face
GoldBanana said:
That's a poor excuse to make it socially acceptable. That's like saying we should abolish the 2nd Amendment and take away everyone's guns because they might shoot someone. We cannot legislate against stupidity. People need to be responsible and held accountable for their own actions.
Black Angel
Resident
It all depends on the person. What works for some will not work for others and vice versa.
Condoms, IUDs, Diaphragms can fail.
Vasectomies and Tubal ligations can be botched.
Birth control and the morning after pill can fail.
Abstinence is ideal, but you would be delusional if you believed that it was a surefire way to avoid pregnancy, and I only say this because rape is still a possibility. The fact that 2/3 of rape victims know their attacker would mean that rape is still possible even if the victim only went to school, work and home and had no social life what so ever.
Some people have abortions, and realize that even though it was the right decision at that point in their life, they still regret it even if they ended up having a family later on in their life. <= This is most often the case with women who have had abortions, so i really don't understand why some people act as if she happily skipped down to the clinic, got scraped, and then happily skipped out. That just doesn't happen. The women who have had an abortion are aware of what is going on even if they are only getting a bunch of cells removed, since it had not yet become a fetus.
Some people choose adoption and the child ends up in a foster home for the rest of their lives, or worse, ends up with parents who abuse them every single day of their lives. <= This happens more than you think.
There are so many kids in foster care who have either never had parents off their own, or have bounced from home to home and abused in every single one. To make matters worse, you have certain people who are doing everything they can possibly do, to make sure that these kids stay in foster care, because these individuals believe that the kid is better off in foster care than being adopted by a gay couple.
You also have the affluent who would sooner adopt a baby thousands of miles away from some foreign country, than adopt a child who needs a family in their own back yard.
This isn't even counting the individuals who want to continue this cycle, and restrict preventative measures by, restricting sex ed for teens so that they don't learn about sex, (even though, the states without access to this information, have the highest rates of teen pregnancy) restricting access to contraceptives, so that, if they make the choice to have sex, the teen wouldn't know how to prevent a pregnancy, restrict access to abortion, in case they were raped, or, if they had sex and did everything they could possibly do to prevent a pregnancy. I am using teens, since that is where it can start, but there are some teens who grow up to be an adult without knowing much more about sex.
Some people choose adoption and the child ends up in a loving home. <= Although this is great when it happens, it is not the always the case, so people should stop acting as if every child that is put up for adoption, will be adopted by a loving family who will love them.
Some people decide to keep the child and abuse it every single day of their lives. There are way too many children out there who are unwanted and abused and either end up sitting in a foster home because they were removed from the home, and there was no family who wanted to care for them until they are told that they have to leave, and either end up being homeless or in jail, if they aren't able to support themselves. Or worse, the child ends up dead because of the abuse by their birth parents, or, the baby ends up in a dumpster.
There are as many possible outcomes as there are situations that lead up to it.
One size does not fit all, and so people should stop acting as if it does.
After all has been said and done, it is a woman's body, and therefore it should be a woman's choice. If the father is still around, then he has some say in it as well, but ultimately the choice is and should be hers. What happens next should be between her and her doctor.
I think that people should just stay in their lane, do what works for them and mind their own business, if it does not affect them directly. Perhaps instead of people running around injecting their personal beliefs and opinions in between the legs of others, it would be best if they can come up with a solution to the growing number kids currently in foster care and those who will end up in there as well.
Whether or not a woman has an abortion, will not change the fact that there are still a lot of children in the foster homes who need homes, some are being abused on a daily basis and are feeling unwanted, not just by their parents, but by society as well.
How can a person be pro-life, and focus solely on those that are not even born yet, but still conveniently ignore the many unwanted children there are in foster homes? If these people can run around talking about how abortion is wrong, then they can talk about what they themselves are actively doing to help the unwanted children who are being abused by their birth and/or foster parents, as well as those who are currently in foster homes and orphanges.
If these people aren't willing to step up to the plate for these children, then perhaps they might want to think twice the next time they want to inject their personal opinions into something that has absolutely nothing to do with them.
Condoms, IUDs, Diaphragms can fail.
Vasectomies and Tubal ligations can be botched.
Birth control and the morning after pill can fail.
Abstinence is ideal, but you would be delusional if you believed that it was a surefire way to avoid pregnancy, and I only say this because rape is still a possibility. The fact that 2/3 of rape victims know their attacker would mean that rape is still possible even if the victim only went to school, work and home and had no social life what so ever.
Some people have abortions, and realize that even though it was the right decision at that point in their life, they still regret it even if they ended up having a family later on in their life. <= This is most often the case with women who have had abortions, so i really don't understand why some people act as if she happily skipped down to the clinic, got scraped, and then happily skipped out. That just doesn't happen. The women who have had an abortion are aware of what is going on even if they are only getting a bunch of cells removed, since it had not yet become a fetus.
Some people choose adoption and the child ends up in a foster home for the rest of their lives, or worse, ends up with parents who abuse them every single day of their lives. <= This happens more than you think.
There are so many kids in foster care who have either never had parents off their own, or have bounced from home to home and abused in every single one. To make matters worse, you have certain people who are doing everything they can possibly do, to make sure that these kids stay in foster care, because these individuals believe that the kid is better off in foster care than being adopted by a gay couple.
You also have the affluent who would sooner adopt a baby thousands of miles away from some foreign country, than adopt a child who needs a family in their own back yard.
This isn't even counting the individuals who want to continue this cycle, and restrict preventative measures by, restricting sex ed for teens so that they don't learn about sex, (even though, the states without access to this information, have the highest rates of teen pregnancy) restricting access to contraceptives, so that, if they make the choice to have sex, the teen wouldn't know how to prevent a pregnancy, restrict access to abortion, in case they were raped, or, if they had sex and did everything they could possibly do to prevent a pregnancy. I am using teens, since that is where it can start, but there are some teens who grow up to be an adult without knowing much more about sex.
Some people choose adoption and the child ends up in a loving home. <= Although this is great when it happens, it is not the always the case, so people should stop acting as if every child that is put up for adoption, will be adopted by a loving family who will love them.
Some people decide to keep the child and abuse it every single day of their lives. There are way too many children out there who are unwanted and abused and either end up sitting in a foster home because they were removed from the home, and there was no family who wanted to care for them until they are told that they have to leave, and either end up being homeless or in jail, if they aren't able to support themselves. Or worse, the child ends up dead because of the abuse by their birth parents, or, the baby ends up in a dumpster.
There are as many possible outcomes as there are situations that lead up to it.
One size does not fit all, and so people should stop acting as if it does.
After all has been said and done, it is a woman's body, and therefore it should be a woman's choice. If the father is still around, then he has some say in it as well, but ultimately the choice is and should be hers. What happens next should be between her and her doctor.
I think that people should just stay in their lane, do what works for them and mind their own business, if it does not affect them directly. Perhaps instead of people running around injecting their personal beliefs and opinions in between the legs of others, it would be best if they can come up with a solution to the growing number kids currently in foster care and those who will end up in there as well.
Whether or not a woman has an abortion, will not change the fact that there are still a lot of children in the foster homes who need homes, some are being abused on a daily basis and are feeling unwanted, not just by their parents, but by society as well.
How can a person be pro-life, and focus solely on those that are not even born yet, but still conveniently ignore the many unwanted children there are in foster homes? If these people can run around talking about how abortion is wrong, then they can talk about what they themselves are actively doing to help the unwanted children who are being abused by their birth and/or foster parents, as well as those who are currently in foster homes and orphanges.
If these people aren't willing to step up to the plate for these children, then perhaps they might want to think twice the next time they want to inject their personal opinions into something that has absolutely nothing to do with them.
Nathan said:
Nathan... If I were to tell you that I was born out of rape, would you tell me that I should of never been born? Could you tell a person that if you found out they were born out of rape? Or is it more convenient to do it before they are born?
Thankfully (for my mom that is), I was not born out of rape. However, I was an accident, I was not planned and I created a financial burden. But mom kept me 🙂 and now I repay her with my love, kindness and affection. I am glad she didn't decide to abort me... because I have lived a GREAT life!
GamerPerfection
Resident
I've kind of skim read the posts here as some are rather long, but you make it sound like Nathan said all life conceived from rape should be aborted. Where he actually said that they should have the ability to abort if that happens. He's not saying they should be aborted.Jack Frost said:
The rape scenario is not clear cut as some people might think. It basically is the right of the mother because she is the one that would know whether she would love the baby or despise it because of what happened.
I personally feel that abortion is wrong regardless of what the scenario is, however, i've never had a child of my own, i've never gotten pregnant and obviously never will unless something happens and men start getting pregnant.
GamerPerfection said:
I just read what he had to say and made an observation. If I read it wrong, then my apologizes. 🙂
I too personally feel abortion is wrong and I will always but I will never stand in the way of a women making her own choice. I won't agree with it and that doesn't make me a bad person but I won't do anything to attempt to stop them.
USAPoliticsForumCom said:
Obviously there is a human child DEVELOPING inside a woman, however when you have the ability to abort, it's not a child..
Like I have always said, but you morons seem to constantly ignore, I have not said ALL. Obviously your son is doing well for himself, good for him.
Jack Frost said:
Child: Mother, who is my father? Where was I conceived?
Mother: I don't know who your father is, he raped me. You were conceived some place I would not like to talk about, as it reminds me of my worst life experience.
Need I say more?
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