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No, I'm Atheist.
Are you a christian?
- Thread starter shamzblueworld
- Start date
I'm not a Christian and I also think that if there is any sort of God he/she/it/they would be nothing like the Gods of organised religions would have us believe in. It just makes no sense to me and isn't the way the world looks to me at all.
This might better explain me thoughts on the matter.
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Let's say that somehow I created a Planet on my PC and populated this planet with plants and animals. But unlike software like sim earth these animals were real. Every bit as real as the animals that exist on the Earth today.
Then let's say I created a small race of human like beings. These beings were intelligent, sentient and self aware. Consciously they are as real as you or I. They have emotions, needs, longing, a sense of humour. They feel love, fear, joy, pain, happiness. Just as we do.
Now, not only did I create this world with all it's inhabitants but I also planned every aspect of their lives. There was not one thing that they did, do or will do that I did not know would happen before I even started this project.
I have also gone to a great deal of trouble to give this world a history. I have given it an entire universe to exist in which appears to have emanated from a mighty explosion some 13.7 billion years ago. I have given the planet itself an equally impressive past full of geology, fossil records, evolution and anything else I can think of to make the intelligent and inquiring mind come to the conclusion that all things are as a result of cause and effect with no supernatural element.
Let's further suppose that I love this world with all it's creatures and I want to have a 'personal' relationship with every human like being that exists on it. What I really want is for every person that I have created to worship me and love me and put me before all other people and things. I also want them to follow my rules and guidelines and as a reward for this, when they die they will be granted eternal life in another creation of mine called 'Paradise'.
However, in order for people to know, worship and obey me I must inform them of my existence and my will. I do this by planting thoughts and ideas into some of the peoples minds which eventually work there way into stories which are discussed around camp fires and other gatherings and then get written down.
Many of the stories I plant are in direct contradiction to the physical evidence that lies all around.
After a thousand years or so these stories get compiled into many holy books which many people claim are the word of the creator. Many of the stories claim that I have personally spoken to people throughout history but there is no other evidence other than the stories in these books to support that. I certainly don't intervene to corroborate these stories.
After a while I decide that things aren't going the way I planned so I create a special human with special knowledge to live amongst them and nudge them in the right direction. Not only do I give this human special knowledge I also give him the ability to bypass many of the routines and programming that I used to create this world to allow him to do amazing things such as walk on water, or heal the sick etc.
This man roams around for a few years in his thirties, performing a few miracles and making many speeches. He gets a bit of a following and many people think he has been sent by the creator. However, many more people think he is just the latest in a long line of religious leaders who claim all sorts of things.
Eventually he gets killed and the seeds of a new religion have started.
Right, I think to myself, that's all the chances they are going to get. Either these people believe every word this special man has told them and through him worship, love, honour and obey me or when they die, no matter what sort of person they have been or what sort of life they have lead I'm either going to consign their conscious minds to oblivion or send them to another place I have created called 'Eternal Torment' where I can watch them scream and writhe in agony for all time.
Question is, if this were true, what sort of person would that make me?
Darwinian, admin at http://www.atheistforums.org
This might better explain me thoughts on the matter.
-------
Let's say that somehow I created a Planet on my PC and populated this planet with plants and animals. But unlike software like sim earth these animals were real. Every bit as real as the animals that exist on the Earth today.
Then let's say I created a small race of human like beings. These beings were intelligent, sentient and self aware. Consciously they are as real as you or I. They have emotions, needs, longing, a sense of humour. They feel love, fear, joy, pain, happiness. Just as we do.
Now, not only did I create this world with all it's inhabitants but I also planned every aspect of their lives. There was not one thing that they did, do or will do that I did not know would happen before I even started this project.
I have also gone to a great deal of trouble to give this world a history. I have given it an entire universe to exist in which appears to have emanated from a mighty explosion some 13.7 billion years ago. I have given the planet itself an equally impressive past full of geology, fossil records, evolution and anything else I can think of to make the intelligent and inquiring mind come to the conclusion that all things are as a result of cause and effect with no supernatural element.
Let's further suppose that I love this world with all it's creatures and I want to have a 'personal' relationship with every human like being that exists on it. What I really want is for every person that I have created to worship me and love me and put me before all other people and things. I also want them to follow my rules and guidelines and as a reward for this, when they die they will be granted eternal life in another creation of mine called 'Paradise'.
However, in order for people to know, worship and obey me I must inform them of my existence and my will. I do this by planting thoughts and ideas into some of the peoples minds which eventually work there way into stories which are discussed around camp fires and other gatherings and then get written down.
Many of the stories I plant are in direct contradiction to the physical evidence that lies all around.
After a thousand years or so these stories get compiled into many holy books which many people claim are the word of the creator. Many of the stories claim that I have personally spoken to people throughout history but there is no other evidence other than the stories in these books to support that. I certainly don't intervene to corroborate these stories.
After a while I decide that things aren't going the way I planned so I create a special human with special knowledge to live amongst them and nudge them in the right direction. Not only do I give this human special knowledge I also give him the ability to bypass many of the routines and programming that I used to create this world to allow him to do amazing things such as walk on water, or heal the sick etc.
This man roams around for a few years in his thirties, performing a few miracles and making many speeches. He gets a bit of a following and many people think he has been sent by the creator. However, many more people think he is just the latest in a long line of religious leaders who claim all sorts of things.
Eventually he gets killed and the seeds of a new religion have started.
Right, I think to myself, that's all the chances they are going to get. Either these people believe every word this special man has told them and through him worship, love, honour and obey me or when they die, no matter what sort of person they have been or what sort of life they have lead I'm either going to consign their conscious minds to oblivion or send them to another place I have created called 'Eternal Torment' where I can watch them scream and writhe in agony for all time.
Question is, if this were true, what sort of person would that make me?
Darwinian, admin at http://www.atheistforums.org
Watch Me Sink
Madly Diligent
Care to expand on this?Darwinian said:
In your computer whatnot, that could be the case, but in Christianity you couldn't be more wrong.Darwinian said:
Watch Me Sink
Madly Diligent
Joan of Arc, Padre Pio, Moses. Padre Pio was the most recent, dying in 1968.Darwinian said:
Darwinian said:
The Bible. (written evidence; plus its a collection of stories, so it can not be a coincidence that they all had the same person and same miracles)
Mr. Money, I see where you are coming from. Who knows, he might want people to go to heaven and lead a better life there, rather than stay and see the terrors of the world 😛
From an archeological standpoint, the bible is the number 1 most verifiable written source around. Just try the processes they use to determine validity on it and you'll find it passes them. And there are many subtle ways that messages seem to be conveyed to humans. Some people, for example, have flipped the bible open randomly and fallen upon a very relevant verse (n90% of the time not knowing that it would relate at all to the current situation).Darwinian said:
From an archaeological standpoint the Bible is on very shaky ground.
For example, absolutely zero evidence for the exodus, moses, the flood, Solomon, the life of Jesus etc. etc.
And to say that letting the Bible fall open at a certain page that relates to the readers current situation is somehow evidence seems ridiculous. What about all those times when it doesn't, those I assume are simply forgotten about.
Again, we seem to have very different views for what 'evidence' actually means.
For example, absolutely zero evidence for the exodus, moses, the flood, Solomon, the life of Jesus etc. etc.
And to say that letting the Bible fall open at a certain page that relates to the readers current situation is somehow evidence seems ridiculous. What about all those times when it doesn't, those I assume are simply forgotten about.
Again, we seem to have very different views for what 'evidence' actually means.
Watch Me Sink
Madly Diligent
Bolded. See also "stigmata."Darwinian said:
Also (the way I believe) God doesn't have to necessarily have to speak to one directly.
I was in a car going about 45 miles per hour on a highway. We turned into the turn lane to get off the exit. It was in the winter and the roads were bad. A bird was in the road (there were no other birds around, after all it was winter) in the center of the off ramp. The driver honked the horn twice, and the bird didn't budge. The car slowed down to about 10 miles/hour and the bird flew away when the car was a few yards away. The driver continued to drive onto the offramp, but the car went off the ramp and down a hill headed towards a large metal pole near a trail. The driver was fortunately able to stop before the car crashed into the pole.
You don't think that the bird in the road (in the winter) was pure coincidence?
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