Do Brits/Canadians like their health care systems?

[MissTake]

Ok first off let me say this..........

Last night I spent 6 hours in a corridor at the local A&E with my daughter after she was rushed in by ambulance because she couldn't breath. Now it was an unusually busy night so the 6 hours were extreme, swine flu is pulling everyone down but .....

I can honestly say that when the ambulance was called I knew that they would be there within a few minutes, my daughter would get the urgent attention she required and that we need not worry about the cost of any of it.
Because my daughter recently gave birth she is also eligible for free medication, she had x-rays and blood tests, everything was covered and she was sent home, the only bill was a clean one of health!

While there are several flaws and holes in our National Health Service on the whole we are very lucky to have it in place and EVERYONE, rich or poor can get the treatment they need without the major worries. Of course, we also have the options of private healthcare if we can afford it and it does not take our right to NHS care away.

 

[Watch Me Sink]

For those that support universal health care, do you think illegal immigrants should be supported? What about plastic surgery, or multiple plastic surgeries? What if I started to have gender identity whatnot and wanted to become a woman? Should that all be covered on the taxpayer's dime?

 

[katy perry is hot]

For those that support universal health care, do you think illegal immigrants should be supported? What about plastic surgery, or multiple plastic surgeries? What if I started to have gender identity whatnot and wanted to become a woman? Should that all be covered on the taxpayer's dime?

Illegal immigrants are already supported. Illegals can go to the hospital and get any type of treatment they want. I work in one. Illegals can come in saying they have stomach pains and they will wait on the ER line and then be brought in.

Plastic surgery is not just utilized for stupid cosmetic reasons... it is a very vital medical trade for car accident victims, burn victims, people who get hurt doing labor, etc. For beautification reasons, no, but don't just say no plastic surgery at all.

That's a very interesting story misstake. I will be sure to show your post to any american who tells me next time around that British people hate their health care 😛

 

[MissTake]

We are British and it's a built in thing that we have to moan about everything but people tend to forget their moans when the ambulance people are saving their lives, the surgeons are performing miracles in the operating rooms and the dedicated nurses are working 14 hour shifts to care for them.

As I said there are flaws, post code lotteries for some vital cancer drugs etc....I'll post up more when I get chance :great:

 

[katy perry is hot]

With regard to the flaws would you rather change it the way the US has it or keep it

 

[Deleted member 1609]

We are British and it's a built in thing that we have to moan about everything but people tend to forget their moans when the ambulance people are saving their lives, the surgeons are performing miracles in the operating rooms and the dedicated nurses are working 14 hour shifts to care for them.

As I said there are flaws, post code lotteries for some vital cancer drugs etc....I'll post up more when I get chance :great:

The thing is, though, that British people can't list "people often die or go bankrupt from not getting treatment" under the list of flaws like Americans can. Also, you have to remember that the British system is grossly underfunded. If they actually put more money into it, then many of those flaws would disappear. Despite the underfunding, though, they still do better than the American system.

 

[Watch Me Sink]

What kind of taxes do you pay in the UK?

For those that support universal health care, do you think illegal immigrants should be supported? What about plastic surgery, or multiple plastic surgeries? What if I started to have gender identity whatnot and wanted to become a woman? Should that all be covered on the taxpayer's dime?

Illegal immigrants are already supported. Illegals can go to the hospital and get any type of treatment they want. I work in one. Illegals can come in saying they have stomach pains and they will wait on the ER line and then be brought in.

Plastic surgery is not just utilized for stupid cosmetic reasons... it is a very vital medical trade for car accident victims, burn victims, people who get hurt doing labor, etc. For beautification reasons, no, but don't just say no plastic surgery at all.

But I have a gender identity crisis and the socialist healthcare won't cover it? I agree that plastic surgery can be very useful, but there would have to be a clear line drawn. And if something is unsupported, isn't it morally wrong, since EVERYBODY deserves to have healthcare for EVERYTHING?

 

[Deleted member 1609]

I don't think having your wife's boobs done constitutes health care.

 

[MissTake]

...Actually my cousin had her boobs enlarged on the NHS about 12 years ago! I jest you not!.....and gender re-assignment is also covered.

I have known no other system other than the NHS, having started in 1948 most other people are also only used to the one system...

Here is a great link that sums up the development of the system over the last 60 years and the reasons why it came to be.
http://www.nhshistory.net/shorthistory.htm

....and yes, even with the flaws, I am still very glad we have the National Health Service, we just need to find a way to get it back to how it once was. Paying just 2p more per pound for our national insurance contributions probably wouldn't even be noticed but it would certainly go a long way towards helping.

How much National Insurance you pay Taken from Direct.gov.uk

The amount and type of National Insurance contributions you pay depend on whether you're employed or self-employed and how much you earn. The rates shown below are for the 2010-11 tax year.
If you're employed

If you're employed you pay Class 1 National Insurance contributions. The rates are:

* if you earn more than £110 a week and up to £844 a week, you pay 11 per cent of the amount you earn between £110 and £844
* if you earn more than £844 a week, you also pay an extra 1 per cent of all your earnings over £844

You pay a lower rate if you're a member of your employer's contracted-out pension scheme.

Your contributions are deducted from your wages by your employer.

 

[ItsZippy]

From my experience debating here, we all seem to get hung up on technicalities. In terms of the debate, I really don't care that the NHS has issues, simply because it exists. No-one who support the promotion of human life can say the universal health care is a bad thing. It has issue yes, but that's no group to scrap it. I'd rather have a health system with problems but where everyone can get free treatment that a system where basic health care is reserved for those who can pay.

I am disgusted by anyone who values money over life or health. Waiting times can be an issue sometimes, but I'd rather wait for free health care than not be able to afford it at all. If you're really too elitist to accept waiting times, just get private health cover and be quiet.

Sorry about the angry tone of that, I just get passionate about justice.

 

[Deleted member 1609]

I completely agree. Every health care system has issues, but we're looking at two choices here: everyone gets treated or not everyone gets treated. Hmmm...

 

[fantanoice]

Australia has Universal Health Care as well... y'know... just throwing it out there.

And, well, I like it anyway. It's good to know that despite my financial status, I can still receive the healthcare that I need.

America itself is fundamentally wrong.

This made my day.

For those that support universal health care, do you think illegal immigrants should be supported? What about plastic surgery, or multiple plastic surgeries? What if I started to have gender identity whatnot and wanted to become a woman? Should that all be covered on the taxpayer's dime?

I've yet to read up on whether they're allowed, but as for my thoughts:

Illegal immigrants should get treated, but citizens and legal immigrants should get first priority.

As for cosmetic surgery, no, because it is a luxury, not a necessity. The only exception would be having surgery after an accident, such as burns to the face, or something like that.

I'm a little unsure about the sex change, but I seem to lean more towards 'no,' but it could be debated either a necessity or a luxury. I guess it would depend on the mental stability of the patient, but then you'd have to debate over why a crazy person should be allowed to have it free while a sane person doesn't. :/

 

[MissTake]

Fertility treatment is also a very hit and miss subject, it's not high on the list of priorities but if you are prepared to wait for 3 years you might get a shot at it?

 

[ItsZippy]

One the three issues raised above...

Illegal immigrants should be treated as equals. I support healthcare because I support humanitarian causes. If we start discriminating in our healthcare system, we might as well abolish it. When it comes to such vital areas, we can't let it get political. The system might be abused, yes, but I'm humanitarian - I support anything that helps other people.

I do not think cosmetic surgery should be covered, except where it is needed to repair damage (such as after a dog attack). Whether or not is is necessary should be judged on a case by case basis, generally, if someone isn't seriously disfigured, it should not be freely available.

Sex changes should be judged similarly. If someone has a serious mental condition, it should be free; it not, it should not be. Again, judge each case as it comes.

I think fertility treatment should be free. Reproduction is a natural human function, if you are unable to reproduce, there is something wrong with your body. Healthcare covers all other occasions like this, fertility should be no different.

 

[MissTake]

On the fertility scale I can actually comment directly, several years ago I needed the help of the NHS to find out why I could not conceive, during the tests I felt like a real fraud as there were couples who had no children at all and I already had a daughter of my own.
Whilst I do think fertility treatment should be available on the NHS I seriously don't think it should be a top priority, it's not actually a life or death thing and nature decides who has children and who doesn't. I know that sounds like a contradiction but I am in a position to comment on it, if you have to wait a long time and your body goes past it's ripe time then it's meant to be IMHO.
I was disgusted to learn that my cousin had her boobs done on the NHS, no wonder she told everyone for years that she paid to have them done! This is one situation where she really should have gone private and it's outrageous to think that the money would have been of better use to someone needing cancer drugs or something?
Gender reassignment is probably a different matter all together? You can't help it if you were born into the wrong body, sometimes this is so obviously the case, I know a girl who is so obviously supposed to be a boy, even from a very young age she was male and today as an adult you wouldn't be able to tell any different, she lives as a boy, dresses as a boy, speaks like a boy. I think on this issue that if a person is prepared to go through all the testing and live as the opposite gender for some time then they deserve the opportunity to live as normally as possible.

The only other thing I can throw into the argument is the fact that if you work hard and pay your taxes then you should be entitled to get any treatment you require?

 

[ItsZippy]

I think fertility treatment should be judged individually. I think that if it is not possible for someone to have children, they should definitely be allowed free treatment. If a women is just reaching her menopause, it's different - those cases should be judged individually.

Cosmetic surgery does not need to be subsidised by the state, except, as I said, in cases of severe injury and disfigurement.

Gender reassignment should be allowed free if doctors and psychiatrists decide that it is in a patients best interests. In all of these cases, we just need to trust doctors to make this kind of decision.

MissTake, I don't think that last argument works. We pay tax to the state so that they can provide essential services to the population. Therefore, the money must be spent on essential services. If tax is simply used as a means for getting what you want from the state, tax will no longer serve its purpose.

 

[fantanoice]

The only other thing I can throw into the argument is the fact that if you work hard and pay your taxes then you should be entitled to get any treatment you require?

Yes, but "require" doesn't necessarily mean "want." You can "want" a boob job, but you unlikely "require" it.

 

[katy perry is hot]

The only other thing I can throw into the argument is the fact that if you work hard and pay your taxes then you should be entitled to get any treatment you require?

Yes, but "require" doesn't necessarily mean "want." You can "want" a boob job, but you unlikely "require" it.

People need breast reduction surgeries a lot though. I know a girl in my school who had to get one a few years ago because it was causing severe spinal damage how big they were 😛

 

[mainland marauder]

Owners of the forum im a global mod at are all from UK and they both have nothing bad to say about their healthcare. Only great things. Though i think that breast job on the government's expense is dumb.

 

[fantanoice]

The only other thing I can throw into the argument is the fact that if you work hard and pay your taxes then you should be entitled to get any treatment you require?

Yes, but "require" doesn't necessarily mean "want." You can "want" a boob job, but you unlikely "require" it.

People need breast reduction surgeries a lot though. I know a girl in my school who had to get one a few years ago because it was causing severe spinal damage how big they were 😛

Hence why I said 'unlikely'. I know that some people get reductions due to neck/back pains.