Freedom from what exactly...?

[Naiwen]

Because that's called "true freedom", even the will to die and live...

You currently have that right now. Just because you have responsibilities doesn't mean that you don't have freedom. If those things you're "chained" to don't have any significance or impact on you, why are they even worth being discussed as if they make life horrible?

Because wars in the world are making it worth discussing... million of people are forced/pushed to die for a war or cause they didn't want (examples: Afghanistan, Syria... Egypt...)

Is it right to die for a "forced freedom..."? or "forced ideals..."? No. And
I'm deeply against that really (waste of life...)

 

[pandaa]

Well now you're discussing something totally different. Let's take a step back though, you never really answered my question. Yes, being born into a warzone and not having the freedom to get out is a bad situation, and I would agree with you. But, my question is, why would having absolute freedom away from your human needs have any importance?

 

[Naiwen]

Well now you're discussing something totally different. Let's take a step back though, you never really answered my question. Yes, being born into a warzone and not having the freedom to get out is a bad situation, and I would agree with you. But, my question is, why would having absolute freedom away from your human needs have any importance?

Because that's called "being human..." and all humans crave for these freedoms fundamentally (to not get into war... or violence... or dying...) and to be freed
from our basic needs (like eating, drinking... and breathing...) We all wanted that from the beginning of humanity, knowing full well it's impossible.

 

[pandaa]

What is your evidence behind humans craving to be freed from their basic needs? Honestly, you're the first person I've ever heard say that. What is so bad about them?

 

[Naiwen]

What is your evidence behind humans craving to be freed from their basic needs? Honestly, you're the first person I've ever heard say that. What is so bad about them?

Let me ask you a question then... why do we need "more rights" besides eating, drinking and breathing and why have we been imagining other species not needing that (be it Aliens, Gods/Goddessses, Fairies/Faes) since the beginning of humanity. Proof that all humans crave for this.

 

[LunarScorpio]

What is your evidence behind humans craving to be freed from their basic needs? Honestly, you're the first person I've ever heard say that. What is so bad about them?

Let me ask you a question then... why do we need "more rights" besides eating, drinking and why are we imagining other species not needing that (like Aliens, Gods/Goddessses) since the beginning of humanity.

When did eating and drinking become a right? Also, who says that aliens and Gods/Goddesses (if they exist) don't also eat and drink?

 

[Naiwen]

What is your evidence behind humans craving to be freed from their basic needs? Honestly, you're the first person I've ever heard say that. What is so bad about them?

Let me ask you a question then... why do we need "more rights" besides eating, drinking and why are we imagining other species not needing that (like Aliens, Gods/Goddessses) since the beginning of humanity.

When eating and drinking become a right? Also, who says that aliens and Gods/Goddesses (if they exist) don't also eat and drink?

Many ancient Goddesses and Gods don't need to eat or drink: Greek, Chinese... and even Christian (if you've studied myths). I think it's because humans desire to be freed from that.

And when you can't even eat & drink... & breathe. Believe me, i've been through that myself.

 

[LunarScorpio]

What is your evidence behind humans craving to be freed from their basic needs? Honestly, you're the first person I've ever heard say that. What is so bad about them?

Let me ask you a question then... why do we need "more rights" besides eating, drinking and why are we imagining other species not needing that (like Aliens, Gods/Goddessses) since the beginning of humanity.

When eating and drinking become a right? Also, who says that aliens and Gods/Goddesses (if they exist) don't also eat and drink?

Many ancient Goddesses and Gods don't need to eat or drink.

But just because they don't, doesn't mean they can't. So, they have the same "rights" as us, as you put it.

 

[Naiwen]

What is your evidence behind humans craving to be freed from their basic needs? Honestly, you're the first person I've ever heard say that. What is so bad about them?

Let me ask you a question then... why do we need "more rights" besides eating, drinking and why are we imagining other species not needing that (like Aliens, Gods/Goddessses) since the beginning of humanity.

When eating and drinking become a right? Also, who says that aliens and Gods/Goddesses (if they exist) don't also eat and drink?

Many ancient Goddesses and Gods don't need to eat or drink.

But just because they don't, doesn't mean they can't. So, they have the same "rights" as us, as you put it.

And these are priviledges we share with them for me... not "basic rights..." so very different from Western views on this.

 

[LunarScorpio]

And these are priviledges for me... not "basic rights..."

How so?

 

[Naiwen]

And these are priviledges for me... not "basic rights..."

How so?

We are humans, they are Gods/Goddesses or "higher beings". the priviledges to live, eat and drink are given to us by them and revoked by them too. So unless we are free from them, then we are truly free.

 

[LunarScorpio]

And these are priviledges for me... not "basic rights..."

How so?

We are humans, they are Gods/Goddesses.

So what? Why do they not have the same "rights" as us? Also, what makes it a privilege for you and not for the "Gods/Goddesses"?

 

[Naiwen]

And these are priviledges for me... not "basic rights..."

How so?

We are humans, they are Gods/Goddesses.

So what? Why do they not have the same "rights" as us?

Read my entire post: they have the right to "revoke" our priviledges because they are "higher" than us. So hence why freedom from what? Humanity and natural forces on Earth.

 

[pandaa]

Read my entire post: they have the right to "revoke" our priviledges because they are "higher" than us.

So if I could sum up this whole topic in one sentence, it would be that we are not truly free because everything in our life was put into place by a higher being? Is that what you're trying to say?

 

[Naiwen]

Read my entire post: they have the right to "revoke" our priviledges because they are "higher" than us.

So if I could sum up this whole topic in one sentence, it would be that we are not truly free because everything in our life was put into place by a higher being? Is that what you're trying to say?

Yes...or created by a higher power...

 

[LunarScorpio]

Read my entire post: they have the right to "revoke" our priviledges.

You edit your posts continuously, so it's hard for me to "read [your] entire post."

Also, who gave the "higher beings" the privilege to live, eat, drink, etc.? In addition, getting back to what I think was the original point of this thread (but it's unclear because your question was unclear), what gives them the freedom to give us these "privilege"? What are they trying to be free of?

 

[Naiwen]

Read my entire post: they have the right to "revoke" our priviledges.

You edit your posts contentiously, so it's hard for me to "read [your] entire post."

Also, who gave the "higher beings" the privilege to live, eat, drink, etc.? In addition, getting back to what I think was the original point of this thread (but it's unclear because your question was unclear), what gives them the freedom to give us these "privilege"? What are they trying to be free of?

And what are we humans trying to be free from...? the natural conditions to be human ultimately.

 

[LunarScorpio]

Read my entire post: they have the right to "revoke" our priviledges.

You edit your posts contentiously, so it's hard for me to "read [your] entire post."

Also, who gave the "higher beings" the privilege to live, eat, drink, etc.? In addition, getting back to what I think was the original point of this thread (but it's unclear because your question was unclear), what gives them the freedom to give us these "privilege"? What are they trying to be free of?

And what are we humans trying to be free from...?

You can't answer the question, so you dodge it instead. Okay.

 

[pandaa]

So this is really a religious debate? Because honestly, these can go on for hours and not really go anywhere because of the lack of solid proof that one belief is correct. How would someone's views on their "priviledges" change if they were of a different religion, or didn't believe in higher beings?

I think also what you need to ask yourself is, why do you want to be free from everything? What I've been trying to say is that if your quality of life and happiness aren't impacted, why does it matter?

 

[Naiwen]

Read my entire post: they have the right to "revoke" our priviledges.

You edit your posts contentiously, so it's hard for me to "read [your] entire post."

Also, who gave the "higher beings" the privilege to live, eat, drink, etc.? In addition, getting back to what I think was the original point of this thread (but it's unclear because your question was unclear), what gives them the freedom to give us these "privilege"? What are they trying to be free of?

And what are we humans trying to be free from...?

You can't answer the question, so you dodge it instead. Okay.

And can anybody answer my question? No. I already said it many times: from being human and the natural conditions to being humans.
Finally, someone understood it. And there's really no use in or it's futile
to fight it, we are always going to be inevitably human.
... No, it's about "what's freedom" exactly... or from whom or what are we trying to free ourselves from... Because we are conditionned to be "human". No? Now if we could free ourselves from that idea...