Pro-gun vs. Anti-gun

[Canadian Marksman]

Irviding, funny how we were both called out for having such a pro-gun view early in the topic, and now our views (very similar) don't seem to be radical enough.

And what's the chance that two radical pro-gun users sign up here within days of each other, and this topic is their only contribution...

Radical?......thanks for the label :great:

why is it that you never hear the word associated with any other sport? but if your passionate about firearms your radical? :roll:


I read posts that want to ban personal property and would open the door to more seizures and , I call you out on it as being foolish and that is being radical?

I know here in Canada they PROMISED there would be no more seizures or bans and registration would not lead to it ..........THEY LIED!

I guess you will learn the hard way then

The ironic thing here is that i used to think they way you both do, but i didn't know any better then either. The shooting community thought we would sell a few down the river with bans and they would leave us alone, boy were we wrong.

You cannot win with these people they will incrementally ban everything, look at the UK ...you can't have a sharp knife

Google NRA HIGH POWER MATCH and take a look at how these horrible military pattern rifles are used.

if it was not restricted(range use only which is lame) here in Canada the ar15 would be the no 1 varmint gun out there. And just about every rifle in the military eventually makes its way to civilian sportsmen.

It is also my experience that gun control does not work it only makes it easier for the predators of society to victimize the people.
All you have to do is look at countries that have firearms bans ........they are crap-holes or turning into crap-holes

 

[Cosmic]

Let me see. What can you do with military grade weapons:

Sniper Rifle: Perch in some roof top and kill a passer-by. Sounds like murder.

Machine Gun: Walk into McDonalds and squeeze the trigger until everyone's dead.

Isn't that just a little bit over the top? I'd think anything else would be sufficient to defend yourself, providing you go to the shooting range enough to use it well.

 

[Canadian Marksman]

Let me see. What can you do with military grade weapons:

Sniper Rifle: Perch in some roof top and kill a passer-by. Sounds like murder.

Machine Gun: Walk into McDonalds and squeeze the trigger until everyone's dead.

Isn't that just a little bit over the top? I'd think anything else would be sufficient to defend yourself, providing you go to the shooting range enough to use it well.

GOOD GRIEF!!!!!!!!!!

first i am a "radical" now i am a "murderer"

you should be careful how you use your comparisons

Cosmic, You could use a computer for surfing Kiddie porn perhaps computers should be banned.

Doesn't feel good does it ?

I thought the topic was whether your or not your pro or anti gun that encompasses all hunting, defense and shooting sports, not just one facet.

the point i have made and continue to make is that one gun is the same as another gun you ban one you ban them all (you can argue any rifle with a scope is a "sniper gun"

the term military pattern for the most part is a moot one as most guns (rifles and pistols) are derived from a military pattern

what would you do with civilian rifles adopted by the military ? like the parker hale 82 or the remington 700 ban them too?

Here in Canada they banned the M40 rifle which is an accurized remington 700 bolt action rifle with a scope..........but you can buy a 700 and accurize and modify it all you want you can make it a M40 just as its not an M40......and people do because they hunt with them, and they compete in F class with them.

the infanteer is trained to use an entrenching tool as a weapon .......I guess you people would ban those too :roll:

any tool can be used for evil and you will never control that whether it be a gun, car or a match and gasoline or a computer for that matter.

 

[Watch Me Sink]

 

[Canadian Marksman]

^^^^^^^^EXACTLY!!!!!^^^^^^^^^

in canada we have a saying for selective gun owners .......we call them fudds, a fudd is only pro for his preferred type of gun. Everyone else's guns can be cut up for scrap and they won't lift a finger to help in the fight. Just as bad or worse than any anti.

 

[Watch Me Sink]

 

[Canadian Marksman]

<br /><br />-- 20 Aug 2010, 17:51 --<br /><br />

 

[Cosmic]

@Canadian Marksman: your analogy is completely unrelated to the issue. tell me what you can do with a machine gun or sniper rifle that you can't do with a semi-automatic?

 

[Canadian Marksman]

@Canadian Marksman: your analogy is completely unrelated to the issue. tell me what you can do with a machine gun or sniper rifle that you can't do with a semi-automatic?

you still miss my point and that is the difference between a so called "military pattern fire arm" and other terms such as a so-called sniper rifle can be quite blurry even your last posts can blur the lines quite well

an ar10, an M1a/M14 and a svd dragunov/ tigr are all semi autos and made for both made civilian and military markets and make good hunting rifles and target rifle (exception being the svd becuase i simply have not shot the dam thing enough to have a good opinion)

of note, in Canada you can't hunt with a former military M14 or even take it to the range because its inherently evil as its a converted auto. but its totally ok to throw a M1a in the back of your truck and go hunting with it, when you give control to bureaucrats things get really stupid.

now back to your post

guns are tools like computers and hammers and can be used for good or evil

like i said above semis can be employed quite accurately and as a sniping platform, the lines get blurry


esp between target and so called sniper guns, the Ruger 1022 .22lr is employed by the Israelis as a sniper platform so i guess that would have to be banned too eh.

I shoot my 556/223 up to 600 meters in competition and even though its an ar pattern and looks like a M16 its much more accurate great target rifle but it is not a battle rifle

By the way as far as living things you might shoot a ground hog with it that far but 300 m is about the power curve for that round on anything big, like great for coyote , maybe a deer , i know people who done it but for a grizzly or polar bear ......you would be better off to throw it at them so they can eat it why you run away or maybe shoot yourself to avoid being awake while it chews on your face

I do know people who hunt (i don't) deer with an ar 10 down in the central U.S.

so i really don't understand what your getting at.I will say about 80% (i don't consider myself an expert) of all guns are inherently a military pattern,muzzle loader, single shot, semis, and bolt actions, and by the way some of you talk should be banned, i disagree as its an asinine conclusion.

If your talking from a personal defense aspect every bodies situation is different......your physique, age personal situation, and environment all come into account.

a guy running surveys in bear country in the rockys will want to carry something different from an elderly person in the city .......etc etc etc.

In the past i used to carry a shotgun for coyotes, and would have had an ar15 if it would be legal to carry one here in Canada as it would be more effective.

and to reiterate ........you cannot appease anti gun people!
anybody on a range in Canada will tell you it just won't work
up here they went after full autos.....then high capacity mags, then converted autos......then short barreled handguns........now they want semis and hand guns .........they just keep creeping in and will not leave you alone until any fire you have will be gone! and they will throw you in jail for some stupid crime of not having a form filled out while the crack head who raped your daughter will be out on the street packing heat in 3 years.

 

[KeithSECTalk]

People kill people.

/Thread

Thanks for playing guys.

 

[Canadian Marksman]

^^^^^^^^^^^^yep^^^^^^^^^

and its not going to stop anytime soon and i will not be a part to limiting people to defend themselves as it will only come back on me later.

 

[katy perry is hot]

^^^^^^^^^^^^yep^^^^^^^^^

and its not going to stop anytime soon and i will not be a part to limiting people to defend themselves as it will only come back on me later.

Here we go. Defending themselves.

YOU DO NOT NEED ANYTHING MORE THAN A PISTOL OR AT THE MOST A SHOTGUN TO DEFEND YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY. THANK YOU. HAVE A NICE DAY. I WOULD SAY TO THE BOTH OF YOU BUT SINCE YOU ARE CLEARLY THE SAME PERSON NO NEED.

 

[Maximus Vir]

Pro-gun
My American Standpoint
2nd Amendment, enough said.
We have that right, they cannot take it out unless America turns into a dictatorship.

Maximus

 

[KeithSECTalk]

^^^^^^^^^^^^yep^^^^^^^^^

and its not going to stop anytime soon and i will not be a part to limiting people to defend themselves as it will only come back on me later.

Here we go. Defending themselves.

YOU DO NOT NEED ANYTHING MORE THAN A PISTOL OR AT THE MOST A SHOTGUN TO DEFEND YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY. THANK YOU. HAVE A NICE DAY. I WOULD SAY TO THE BOTH OF YOU BUT SINCE YOU ARE CLEARLY THE SAME PERSON NO NEED.

I don't even know that guy. What are you on.

It only takes one bullet to kill a person. The type of gun is pretty irrelevant.

 

[Canadian Marksman]

The question was; Are you progun or anti gun

your basing your opinion solely on self defense (and that's not what the threads about) while others would base theirs solely on hunting (what they hunt with)

anti gun people who will take your rights away will love this and do everything they can to just to arbitrarily ban any firearms they can until they are all gone.

Its like me telling you what type of car you should own or what kind of house you should live in .........hey in North Korea the people get only what they need.....I don't think its utopia though.

then somebody said that "military" weapons should be banned

I am telling you from experience there is no such thing as the "middle of the road here"

a quick look at military calibers

It does not take a great authority to understand that most guns are either taken from designs used by the military or are just adopted by the military, so banning them would open up a huge can of worms
if you just look at calibers this view does not make sense
ban 556 but not 223? they are almost same round as well as 308 and 7.62 and don't forget the 30 06 the 303 the 4570 the 7.62x39(realistically almost identical to a 3030 )yes the lowly 22lr, as well as 12 gauge 45acp 38 s+W and yes 9mm (parabellum means war by the way)

some jack@ss in parliament wanted to try to ban handgun ammunition until it was made known they were getting into a comparable hornets nest.

I do have a vast knowledge but do not consider myself an expert and very wary of people who say they are.

as for self defense one has no right to limit another this way all shooting sports are martial arts (aka military) and ironically karate got started when feudal lords in japan took the peasants weapons away.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions
Something you people are not considering here are the controls such as you speak start a vast and single minded bureaucracy that must be fed by taxpayer money and don't really care about what they are doing. I also guarantee you that people who install such measures will be inherently ANTI-GUN
all these "screening measures are crap and the police know it save for political groups such as the Canadian Chiefs of police (what do you have when the police start dictating laws) and the line police officers have been told under threat of disciplinary action to "shut up"

we have a whole town whose only employment is to administrate the gun registry (good god) and we have people ending up in court who shouldn't be there because for the most part many younger police officers don't know the laws and when in doubt charge somebody.

Most gun owners do not trust the police anymore in Canada ......THAT IS A PROBLEM!


BTW
people have borderline called me a radical , murderer and double poster :roll: I am not calling anyone names unless telling someone they are wrong is a major taboo

 

[katy perry is hot]

^^^^^^^^^^^^yep^^^^^^^^^

and its not going to stop anytime soon and i will not be a part to limiting people to defend themselves as it will only come back on me later.

Here we go. Defending themselves.

YOU DO NOT NEED ANYTHING MORE THAN A PISTOL OR AT THE MOST A SHOTGUN TO DEFEND YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY. THANK YOU. HAVE A NICE DAY. I WOULD SAY TO THE BOTH OF YOU BUT SINCE YOU ARE CLEARLY THE SAME PERSON NO NEED.

I don't even know that guy. What are you on.

It only takes one bullet to kill a person. The type of gun is pretty irrelevant.

Meth. But that's not relevant.

My post wasn't directed at you. It was directed at these two "new members" who registered within a day of each other and post the same exact thing in only one topic.

As for the hunting statements, I understand you want to hunt. This is directed at Canadian Marksman. However, you do not need to have any type of heavy weapon used in military conflicts kept in your home. It is simply not neccessary. Maybe there can be some sort of hunting organization which is permitted to keep certain types of hunting rifles by the government (no assault rifles, i don't give a flying shit how much you like hunting, no one has the right to keep these) and they can issue them to you and fellow hunters when you go hunting.

And I agree with the people kill people notion. That is why I support keeping handguns or shotguns as personal defense weapons. I do NOT support keeping assault rifles or submachine guns or sniper rifles in someones home because that is simply overdoing the notation. As someone said, all it takes is someone to walk into one populated area, and take out 10-20 people in seconds with one of these weapons. There is absolutely NO NEED WHATSOEVER for these types of weapons.

 

[Canadian Marksman]

Irviding,

I have said and proved over again the line of sporting arms and military is not clear and you simply choose to ignore that reality and make up your own.

People will use people like you to divide and conquer the shooting community and ultimately take your rights away.

As someone said, all it takes is someone to walk into one populated area, and take out 10-20 people in seconds with one of these weapons.

one can do that with a pistol or shotgun just as, if not more effectively just as was recently proven by one sick SOB in the UK .....where guns are banned and everybody is perfectly safe :roll:

people break the law everyday and will continue to do so to try to legislate mans problems away all one does is manufacture more criminals!
10 commandments is enough for God and i am not even religous.

I do NOT support keeping assault rifles or submachine guns or sniper rifles in someones home because that is simply overdoing the notation.

thats your view but once again i don't think you have the knowledge of firearms to make that call.

and once again do you really want to live in a society where you are limited in owning only what you need ? because it won't stop at you giving up firearms it will stop at you living in a box with a stool in it

 

[katy perry is hot]

Irviding,

I have said and proved over again the line of sporting arms and military is not clear and you simply choose to ignore that reality and make up your own.

People will use people like you to divide and conquer the shooting community and ultimately take your rights away.

As someone said, all it takes is someone to walk into one populated area, and take out 10-20 people in seconds with one of these weapons.

one can do that with a pistol or shotgun just as, if not more effectively just as was recently proven by one sick SOB in the UK .....where guns are banned and everybody is perfectly safe :roll:

people break the law everyday and will continue to do so to try to legislate mans problems away all one does is manufacture more criminals!
10 commandments is enough for God and i am not even religous.

I do NOT support keeping assault rifles or submachine guns or sniper rifles in someones home because that is simply overdoing the notation.

thats your view but once again i don't think you have the knowledge of firearms to make that call.

and once again do you really want to live in a society where you are limited in owning only what you need ? because it won't stop at you giving up firearms it will stop at you living in a box with a stool in it

I don't have an expert knowledge on firearms. My knowledge of anything other than handguns is next to nothing. That doesn't mean that I can't have an opinion on which type of guns you can keep in your home for the general safety of the public.

There is simply no need to keep assault rifles in your home. I don't give a shit which caliber or which magazine size the gun has. If it's not a pistol or a shotgun, it doesn't belong in your home. Even if you served in the military.

And you are over dramatizing the situation. Comparing the restriction of assault weapons with living in a box is laughable.

 

[Canadian Marksman]

I don't have an expert knowledge on firearms. My knowledge of anything other than handguns is next to nothing. That doesn't mean that I can't have an opinion on which type of guns you can keep in your home for the general safety of the public.

Or course you have right to an opinion but considering your knowledge base and willingness to thrust it on others i would not consider it a good one to follow.

Once again I had very similar views(I knew alot less then too) even and i thought them quite reasonable until i was proved wrong

When my car breaks or when i am sick down i hear alot of opinions but i don't let people work on my car or treat me unless they are qualified so why would I be different when it concerns my rights and listen to an "opinion" from someone who has virtually little knowledge of what they are talking about particularly when the facts, and history not opinion illustrate the opposite.

note that self-defense,is but one facet and one use of firearms in today's society.

And you are over dramatizing the situation. Comparing the restriction of assault weapons with living in a box is laughable.

really then why has every horrible regime in history have one thing in common?

weapons seizure and restriction.

.......and there are more you can add to that list

like Rwanda,Chile, etc

 

[katy perry is hot]

I don't have an expert knowledge on firearms. My knowledge of anything other than handguns is next to nothing. That doesn't mean that I can't have an opinion on which type of guns you can keep in your home for the general safety of the public.

Or course you have right to an opinion but considering your knowledge base and willingness to thrust it on others i would not consider it a good one to follow.

Once again I had very similar views(I knew alot less then too) even and i thought them quite reasonable until i was proved wrong

When my car breaks or when i am sick down i hear alot of opinions but i don't let people work on my car or treat me unless they are qualified so why would I be different when it concerns my rights and listen to an "opinion" from someone who has virtually little knowledge of what they are talking about particularly when the facts, and history not opinion illustrate the opposite.

note that self-defense,is but one facet and one use of firearms in today's society.

And you are over dramatizing the situation. Comparing the restriction of assault weapons with living in a box is laughable.

really then why has every horrible regime in history have one thing in common?

weapons seizure and restriction.

.......and there are more you can add to that list

like Rwanda,Chile, etc

History is one thing I am an expert on my friend. And I will tell you right now that in all those regimes there had been serious strife going in the first place and these leaders simply capitalized.

Let me further clarify something. If you have the notion that "Oh them big government boys are gonna come in here and take my freedom" if they take your assault rifles, you are severely wrong.

WAKE UP. If the American government wanted to do that to its citizens, it doesn't matter how many people with assault rifles there are running around. The army will quell them regardless. So don't even try that bullshit "we need to be protected and be able to stop the government from taking us over".