The Parson
Up-and-Coming Sensation
Hm... The logic escapes me there.Johnny said:
Do you believe Jesus is God
- Thread starter Mokeli
- Start date
Johnny said:
I don't understand that? Burger King and McDonald's are different. Jesus and God are the same, in terms of immortality. Jesus is the human for of God, as so many evangelical apologetics and scholars have noted.
The Parson
Up-and-Coming Sensation
Right, and also proved with multiple scripture.dotDavid said:
Johnny said:
So, are you saying all those evangelical apologetics who have dedicated their lives to philosophical views of Jesus of Nazareth are lying when they say that Jesus and God are one (plus the Holy Spirit)?
They are not the same in form, yes, but Jesus is God and vice versa.
The Parson
Up-and-Coming Sensation
God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost and these three are one. God in three persons. The Godhead if you will.
Johnny said:
Could I please see your PhD or your Masters? Your comment is very fallacious as it: 1) does not provide proof or evidence in terms of just posting a fair argument; 2) undermines the works of many evangelical philosophers and skeptics of Jesus of Nazareth; 3) has no documentation of your own works to prove that they are not the same; and 4) provides bad examples of comparison.
You clearly do not see the fact that you haven't done your research to prove that Jesus is not God. What proof do you have in saying Jesus is not God? I can say Jesus is God as per the research made by William Lane Craig, an Evangelical apologetic, philosopher and theologian, who has done his research and presented them in worthy debates and books.
To all those who say "Jesus is God"...
...reading isn't a strong point for you is it? Um...I hate to break this to you, but Jesus and God are two completely separate entities in the world's best selling Bedtime Storybook. Like a few of you posted, "Jesus the son of God." I mean, do you need anything else to answer this question?
To all the Jesus fans...sorry to break it to you, but Jesus had brown skin, was uneducated and isn't ever going to float down here to 'save your souls.' Have fun waiting though - I'll be wake-boarding.
-Rich
...reading isn't a strong point for you is it? Um...I hate to break this to you, but Jesus and God are two completely separate entities in the world's best selling Bedtime Storybook. Like a few of you posted, "Jesus the son of God." I mean, do you need anything else to answer this question?
To all the Jesus fans...sorry to break it to you, but Jesus had brown skin, was uneducated and isn't ever going to float down here to 'save your souls.' Have fun waiting though - I'll be wake-boarding.
-Rich
(Sorry about that, sleep deprivation makes me cranky) Let's say Jesus was an actual person...due to his location of birth and parent's ethnic background, he would have had brown skin (much like an individual from India). It's just funny that Christians portray him as a fluorescent white. There's no possible way he would have been so...white. But then, this is just one example how Christians (in power) seem to change details to better suit their needs.
You take a pretty simple script (The Old Testament) - scripture that's shared by the world's largest religions (more or less). Along the lines, someone didn't like a part of it...so they changed it. Ex: King Henry who re-wrote the Bible to allow divorces (King James Edition). Anyway, there are multiple other examples, such as the story of Lillith, and 13ish other books which were completely just...dropped.
I actually think this would be a good bases for a healthy debate. When I get off work, I'll put together some facts, dates, speculations and see what the rest of the community comes up with 🙂
-Rich
You take a pretty simple script (The Old Testament) - scripture that's shared by the world's largest religions (more or less). Along the lines, someone didn't like a part of it...so they changed it. Ex: King Henry who re-wrote the Bible to allow divorces (King James Edition). Anyway, there are multiple other examples, such as the story of Lillith, and 13ish other books which were completely just...dropped.
I actually think this would be a good bases for a healthy debate. When I get off work, I'll put together some facts, dates, speculations and see what the rest of the community comes up with 🙂
-Rich
You have just provided a judgment on the reliability of the Bible, not the fact that Jesus is God, and even then can probably be defended. The Old Testament does not provide the story of Jesus, rather the events prior to Jesus' birth. Therefore it cannot be used in conjunction with what is being debated here.
The Parson made a good quote from the Bible showing that Jesus is God.
The Parson made a good quote from the Bible showing that Jesus is God.
Nexus said:
And The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One, ie, they are not separate entities. Again I ask, are you saying the works of many evangelical philosophers and scholars are lying when they say that Jesus and God are One? They say that God revealed himself in the form of a human, Jesus of Nazareth, and in his Son. Or quote: John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."
On a modern world view, a Son cannot be the Father, but this is a very closed minded thought. You only ever accept that a father cannot be a son, therefore ruling out the statement of Jesus is God. What if the father can be the son, or what if the deity father has revealed himself in the human son? Is that ever considered in the Atheist view (I assume Atheist as a true Christian would agree that Jesus is God)?
Except they are referring to 'they are one' in a metaphorical sense - not literal (as is much of the Bible). Either way, 'religion' is just a higher form of means to control people and the source of most conflict in the world.
-Rich
-Rich
Nexus said:
But you can't prove they are metaphorically speaking, ie, just speculation and assumption from your part.
And again, this isn't the place to bash at religion. Atheists haven't done much good either, eg. Hitler and Stalin's anti-Semitism. Both motivated by non-religious means against religion. The deaths of over 10 million people accumulative is no match to what you say religion brings today.
But, you choose to see the "bad" or "negative" side of religion, a typical Atheist mindset. Why not choose to see the good? Also, objective moral is based on religion, and therefore you need religion to determine what is good and bad. From an atheist point of view, they should be saying conflict is neither good or bad, because you have nothing to compare it with, whereas with religion, you have objective moral beliefs to compare it with, and therefore religion plays an important part in today's society, which is not to control, rather to teach (speaking for Christianity, not other religions).
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