Does the guy have a say....

[katy perry is hot]

I'll let you have the last word since you claim to know more about socialism than I do, and no matter what I say it is always wrong.

Okay, then what is Socialism?

And no, I do not act like a male supremisist, you act like a female supremisist. I believe in equal rights for all people, fetus or born. I don't believe in reverse discrimination or discrimination at all. You have obviously twisted my words so that it makes me look like one, but I am far from one.

This has nothing to do with civil rights. This has to do with the mental and emotional stability of a woman carrying a fetus. You're the one who said before that women should be forced to just suck it up and carry the fetus for 9 months then just hand it over to her husband, then wake up the next day and be perfectly fine and dandy ,not us.

 

[Oaerkae]

I'll let you have the last word since you claim to know more about socialism than I do, and no matter what I say it is always wrong.

And no, I do not act like a male supremisist, you act like a female supremisist. I believe in equal rights for all people, fetus or born. I don't believe in reverse discrimination or discrimination at all. You have obviously twisted my words so that it makes me look like one, but I am far from one.

So because I believe that a women should actually have control over her own body makes me a female supremest?

You have one reason for wanting men to have a say in abortions, one reason and only one reason, because you hope it will stop more abortions. You don't care about the women, I get the feeling you don't really care about the man, you just want abortions to stop.

Ok, I give you credit for the ingenious idea you've come up with to stop more abortions. It's commendable, however much I disagree with it.

Now, let's imagine I'm the president. Right now I have the senate and congress in my paws, I can pass any law I want.
What if I say that a man can have the right to force a women to go through with pregnancy if he wants the baby... ok, you've convinced me to put that into law. Congrats....
But, here's the catch, the man can also force the woman to have an abortion, even if the woman wants it. You want the man to have a say now?
Cause there are as many men, maybe more, that want the woman they impregnated to have an abortion. Women aren't the only ones.

I love the way that every debate on this forum turns into "socialists" vs. "capitalists." For the record, I am a socialist, and I'm nowhere near ashamed of that fact.

Anyway, back on-topic. I believe that ultimately, the decision on whether or not to have an abortion belongs completely to the woman because the baby is inside her body, and it literally lives off of her.

My apologies, I don't want this to be a socialist vs capitalist debate. But aren't you a little tired of people misrepresenting socialists as the apex of all evil in the world?... I am.

 

[Nebulous]

Nobody should be forced to have a pregnancy they dont want. However the honorable thing to do would to give the child a chance at life and hand the child over to its other parent who is willing to love and provide for him/her.

 

[katy perry is hot]

Nobody should be forced to have a pregnancy they dont want. However the honorable thing to do would to give the child a chance at life and hand the child over to its other parent who is willing to love and provide for him/her.

That's not honorable at all. How you consider it remotely honorable to force a woman through 9 months of grueling emotional distress absolutely baffles me.

 

[Bossanova]

If they aren't well off, why have unprotected sex?

What're you going to do, tie 'em up in a corner and say "unless you have protected sex, no sex at all"?

 

[Nebulous]

Nobody should be forced to have a pregnancy they dont want. However the honorable thing to do would to give the child a chance at life and hand the child over to its other parent who is willing to love and provide for him/her.

That's not honorable at all. How you consider it remotely honorable to force a woman through 9 months of grueling emotional distress absolutely baffles me.

I find it funny that you said "to force a woman" while quoting my post that said "Nobody should be forced" :rofl:
Yes they will go through 9 months of grueling emotional distress but thats a sacrifice they should make to give someone a chance at life and grow up happy with a parent who actually wants to take care of the child.
I'd say thats the honorable thing to do rather than selfishly killing someone's potential child to save themselves some grueling emotional distress. Also you are a guy so you have no idea what they go through anyways. You can only imagine it. Every woman deals with pregnancy differently. My cousin was the happiest person while she was pregnant with her son. She was "glowing" as they say, all the time. The hard part was the delivery.

 

[katy perry is hot]

I'm not saying that all women don't want to be pregnant. The majority of pregnant women are glowing and are happy, as you said. However, for the ones that aren't happy about it, why force them to go through 9 months of it so the man can get it when the 9 months are over? No woman would do that. I can say that with full certainty. Not one woman in this world is that cold hearted that they would just give away their baby the day it was born and walk out of the hospital and forget about it. Can I ask, do you support abortions in general? Because this whole thing ( at least Kirisutes points ) seem to be just a ploy to stop abortions as Oak already pointed out.

And do you have to keep using the word kill?

 

[Nebulous]

You arent a woman and you dont speak for every woman in the world, also everyone is different so I don't see how your arguments are even credible. Im speaking from a mans perspective because thats what I am. You also keep using the word "forced." Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. We are talking about what some selfish greedy self centered women should do instead of killing a mans baby that he wants to keep.
I believe that if a man and woman come to a mutual agreement on having an abortion, then they should abort the pregnancy. However if one parent wants to keep the child and the other one doesnt, then the best thing to do would be is to have the baby and then sign over the rights to the parent who wants the child. It takes two to make a baby. There are two parents involved. One should not have all the power over the child's life.

 

[katy perry is hot]

Actually, yes. You are forcing someone to do something when you are requiring them by law to keep something they don't want.

" Selfish greedy self centered woman? " Are you for real? Selfish greedy my ass. The selfish greedy one is the man who puts a woman through 9 months of torture.

And really, attacking the credibility of my arguments? Take a look at the mess you had on the past few pages. Everyone is different, sure, but you can ask any woman what they think. I will guarantee you not ONE will say that they would be fine and dandy with being required by law to hold a fetus in their womb for 9 months to give it away when it's born.

 

[Nebulous]

My friend's uncle's ex girlfriend (who has a conscience and is not a heartless self centered woman like those Ive been describing) did exactly what Ive been referring to. She gave birth to his cousin, signed over her rights to his uncle and then left. He is the happiest little boy and I bet when he gets older, he will appreciate that his mom gave him a chance at life instead of just aborting him because she wanted to save herself some emotional distress.

 

[katy perry is hot]

My friend's uncle's ex girlfriend (who has a conscience and is not a heartless self centered woman like those Ive been describing) did exactly what Ive been referring to. She gave birth to his cousin, signed over her rights to his uncle and then left. He is the happiest little boy and I bet when he gets older, he will appreciate that his mom gave him a chance at life instead of just aborting him because she wanted to save herself some emotional distress.

Then that my friend is a woman with absolutely no emotions. If you have the prowess to care for a fetus inside your body for 9 months then just dump it with someone and drive away, then you must have no heart.

I'm sure that he's a happy little boy and that's a nice thing to hear, but it's a very rare situation that you'd end up with a woman that has absolutely no emotion and will just give her child away.

 

[Nebulous]

Its all in how you look at it. You choose to look at the situation with your perspective which is pretty ugly, but a better way to look at is: She did not give away anything. She united a father and son.

 

[Oaerkae]

Its all in how you look at it. You choose to look at the situation with your perspective which is pretty ugly, but a better way to look at is: She did not give away anything. She united a father and son.

But will all women feel this way? Believe it or not there are women who actually work for a living, women who need their weekly paycheck to stay in their apartment.

Imagine a woman gets impregnated, both man and woman are poor. Both live separately, it was a one time fling type of thing.
The man wants the baby, but the woman has to work, and her job is too stressful for a pregnant woman. The man would normally support her while she was pregnant, but he doesn't have the resources. What happens here?
Another idea: The woman is not very healthy, and she's poor. The baby could very well kill her. What happens here?

I don't think abortion is the right move every time, but when it is, I have an obligation to understand the reasons of people that can't buy their way out, that can't just pay someone to fix their problems, like most of us can. Even the poorest people on this site are probably richer than the people in these situations.

No one likes abortion. I hate it as much as the next person, I wish there was another way. But sometimes there isn't. Sometimes, as horrible as it sounds, there just is no other way.

I am a man, I will never as long as I live have to take this choice in my hands, I will never have to go through pregnancy... maybe I'll have to decide with someone to abort a child... I hope not, but one way or another it will never be a choice only I have to make.
If we are not considerate, if we selfishly block our minds from thinking about these people when we debate in the comfort of our computer rooms, if we make choices believing it's our conviction and righteousness and logic leading our words, then the only person that will ever benefit from anything that we say is us.

The only person who will ever benefit from passing a law banning abortions is us, the people that have nothing to lose, that will never have to make that decision. You say a man should have a say in abortions, the only person that should have a say is the person that has to go through the most, that has the most to lose here, the woman. The man's words should be important to her and her alone. If she wants to heed him and go through with her pregnancy, then good for her; but if she doesn't, who can call her selfish, us? No, we can't, that makes us selfish, we can only understand her reasons, or hope she had a good one. Most of time, she will.

 

[Nebulous]

Ever heard of maternity leave? 😛
Believe it not, employers actually pay women to be off work so they can have a baby. 😀
Besides if the man is really wanting to have the child, he would help out with any financials.

 

[Oaerkae]

Ever heard of maternity leave? 😛
Believe it not, employers actually pay women to be off work so they can have a baby. 😀
Besides if the man is really wanting to have the child, he would help out with any financials.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but here are restrictions that apply to whether you can get paid maternity leave in the U.S., certain amount of time working before you can have maternity leave, and other things.

Now, if I'm wrong, please tell me.

 

[Nebulous]

I love it when people make up worst-case-scenario situations just to help their side of a debate. It always makes me laugh.
:lol:

 

[katy perry is hot]

It makes me laugh how at this point, instead of you debating the issue, you've moved on to attack the messenger instead of the message. You've proven that you no longer have any ammunition, mostly because Kirisute left after Oak exposed him for just trying to stop more abortions.

 

[Nebulous]

It makes me laugh how at this point, instead of you debating the issue, you've moved on to attack the messenger instead of the message. You've proven that you no longer have any ammunition, mostly because Kirisute left after Oak exposed him for just trying to stop more abortions.

Thats what you are doing in this very post ^
😛 That statement has nothing to do with the issue.

 

[katy perry is hot]

Neither have half of the statements you've made here. You've given up on arguing it so you just attack the messenger, hence my other post.

 

[Nebulous]

Lol at your ironic hypocriticalness. 😛
Anyways its fun to play the what-if game sometimes. Here's how it usually goes: A couple people give their sides of the argument over the course of a few posts. Ok.. once that has been established then one says "What if this happened" and the other says "What if that happened" and it just goes off in to all sorts of crazy imaginative scenarios that each party will try to disarm. Thats what this thread is turning into.
So if we are going to play that game, then I suppose I can go along..

Ever heard of maternity leave? 😛
Believe it not, employers actually pay women to be off work so they can have a baby. 😀
Besides if the man is really wanting to have the child, he would help out with any financials.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but here are restrictions that apply to whether you can get paid maternity leave in the U.S., certain amount of time working before you can have maternity leave, and other things.

Now, if I'm wrong, please tell me.

No employer can terminate a person's employment due to pregnancy. They are obligated by law to allow a woman to take a maternity leave. Your employer can either grant you a paid leave or you can get temporary disablity or unemployment.. Not sure which one it is. If neither of those work out, then like I said, if the guy really wants the baby then he will help out with any financials.