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Howard_Crane said:
A law which has to be obeyed.
Most artists aren't getting a damned penny, and that's right - does that justify illegally downloading something and breaking the law?
Illegal Downloads
- Thread starter gqgk
- Start date
A law which has to be obeyed.
Most artists aren't getting a damned penny, and that's right - does that justify illegally downloading something and breaking the law?
@gqgk
Please link me to a case where the accused received jail time for a download related case, that they wern't selling the copies for private profit. It's not criminal, it's civil. Please don't argue that point, because i'm rather tired of doing so. Getting sued doesn't mean you've broken a law, I could sue you for all sorts of things that arn't illegal. Civil and criminal are different, criminal get a jury for example, civil is usually a series of judges (or a single one). Also, using bittorrent does not mean I do illegal things, yet another common mistake. Bittorrent is a method of download, which means I can download Linux with it as well (and I have). Since Linux is free anyway, I have broken no law by simply using torrents. I will give you that most of the time the torrent format is used to transfer illegal files and data, however, do NOT label a sharing protocol as illegal, that's no different than marking Ford as illegal because their cars can be used to break the speed limits.
@Irviding
"does that justify illegally downloading something and breaking the law?"
Yes. Like Howard said, in order to correct an unjust system, it must be broken. Once you understand that, and the fact that we don't just sit on our asses and complain while doing it you should see it our way. At least we back up our claims by DOING stuff to start a reform, we now have Pirate party members in the EU parliament for god's sake.
If you're going to call us thieves, least give us the decency of knowing that we're activity working towards reforming the laws to make our actions legal and helpful to society as a whole.
Please link me to a case where the accused received jail time for a download related case, that they wern't selling the copies for private profit. It's not criminal, it's civil. Please don't argue that point, because i'm rather tired of doing so. Getting sued doesn't mean you've broken a law, I could sue you for all sorts of things that arn't illegal. Civil and criminal are different, criminal get a jury for example, civil is usually a series of judges (or a single one). Also, using bittorrent does not mean I do illegal things, yet another common mistake. Bittorrent is a method of download, which means I can download Linux with it as well (and I have). Since Linux is free anyway, I have broken no law by simply using torrents. I will give you that most of the time the torrent format is used to transfer illegal files and data, however, do NOT label a sharing protocol as illegal, that's no different than marking Ford as illegal because their cars can be used to break the speed limits.
@Irviding
"does that justify illegally downloading something and breaking the law?"
Yes. Like Howard said, in order to correct an unjust system, it must be broken. Once you understand that, and the fact that we don't just sit on our asses and complain while doing it you should see it our way. At least we back up our claims by DOING stuff to start a reform, we now have Pirate party members in the EU parliament for god's sake.
If you're going to call us thieves, least give us the decency of knowing that we're activity working towards reforming the laws to make our actions legal and helpful to society as a whole.
leo,
you taking away from what little money artists make does not improve society. your "music transformation of society" means little except less for people who sing or play instruments. and its not creative. go make your own music and give it for free. because thats fine. good for you. but if i make something and sell it, well i don want people stealing it
you taking away from what little money artists make does not improve society. your "music transformation of society" means little except less for people who sing or play instruments. and its not creative. go make your own music and give it for free. because thats fine. good for you. but if i make something and sell it, well i don want people stealing it
Howard_Crane
Reputable
The idea is to not steal music from Free Agents. Rather to liberate the captured music from the record labels.
Even Hitler said you can't commit treason against a treasonist... you can't commit theivery against a theif!
And moderator dude.. Sorry I forgot your name, I'm stoned.
Why does it have to be obeyed? Granted, it's a law. But you must also grant that no one gives a crap. From where I'm from, if the people want something, they get it. We call it Democracy. I hope your people return to it soon.
It was once law on the king's land to burn witches. That stopped when people stopped giving a shit.
Obviously... we're at either ends of a stick here. We disagree. Boo-hoo. Let's get on with our lives.
The reason you don't understand our actions and are offended by them, is because we're all different and have different perspectives. That's all it is. And that's ok.
That message also applies to Mr. Piratebay and Mr. Weirdass Conservative too
Even Hitler said you can't commit treason against a treasonist... you can't commit theivery against a theif!
And moderator dude.. Sorry I forgot your name, I'm stoned.
Why does it have to be obeyed? Granted, it's a law. But you must also grant that no one gives a crap. From where I'm from, if the people want something, they get it. We call it Democracy. I hope your people return to it soon.
It was once law on the king's land to burn witches. That stopped when people stopped giving a shit.
Obviously... we're at either ends of a stick here. We disagree. Boo-hoo. Let's get on with our lives.
The reason you don't understand our actions and are offended by them, is because we're all different and have different perspectives. That's all it is. And that's ok.
That message also applies to Mr. Piratebay and Mr. Weirdass Conservative too
ok wtf is your problem. do you honestly feel that everyone that doesnt agree with you is either retarded or ignorant. how does your head fit inside of a building? you must be so important that you should run the world. i'll vote for you. honestly tho, your opinion means nothing. so dont treat ppl like shit that you dont even know. for someone who says ideas are found by each person you sure do think your the only one that matters
How can you justify downloading/ripping off songs from artists? How do they make their money? Why can't you just buy a CD for $20 and get on with life?? Why can't you just follow the rules?
People should be punished more strongly when it comes to illegal downloading. You say that we can have what we want ("democracy" more or less) and it doesn't matter if it's a law.
So can't we all just go to a video site and pirate videos? That's illegal, and you're really ripping the movie companies off. What's the difference between pirating videos and downloading music from Limewire??
People should be punished more strongly when it comes to illegal downloading. You say that we can have what we want ("democracy" more or less) and it doesn't matter if it's a law.
So can't we all just go to a video site and pirate videos? That's illegal, and you're really ripping the movie companies off. What's the difference between pirating videos and downloading music from Limewire??
katy perry is hot
Seasoned Veteran
Romanite™ said:
Thank god for someone else who isn't for blatantly breaking the law.
"honestly tho, your opinion means nothing"
I can tell right there you wern't raised in a world where the people hold the power, otherwise you'd realize that it's actually what the people think that matters. By saying his thoughts on issues doesn't matter, you're being a dictator. As Howard said, I really wish America would get back to being a democracy soon...
@Romanite™
*screams* It's extremely clear to me that you've never taken the time to look into the WORKING BIZ MODELS that many freelance artists use these days. They still make their money, yet their music is free. We WON'T follow the "rules" because it's extremely clear by the sheer number of people who "file-share" that the "rules" isn't what the PEOPLE want. A "democracy" is ruled by the people's wants and needs, not the industry's. That right there is why we're working toward getting the laws changed, to reflect the people's views. I won't say your thoughts don't matter, because they do, but in a "democracy" we go with what more people think. In a common classroom, there are more students who download their music via file-sharing than those who sit there saying that they rather make billionaires even richer.
There is no difference between pirating movies and pirating music, it's all the same and is the same darn point. Everything i've said also applies to movies, figure it out.
@Irviding
Here's a question, if the gov passed a law saying that every first born were to be killed within a week, and the people protested and didn't obey, what would you think of the issue? Would you agree to kill millions of innocent people, or disobey the law in order to get society to see the issue? That's what we're doing now, breaking laws to get them reformed.
@Howard_Crane
I take that "Mr. Piratebay" as a compliment, thank you ~smile~
I can tell right there you wern't raised in a world where the people hold the power, otherwise you'd realize that it's actually what the people think that matters. By saying his thoughts on issues doesn't matter, you're being a dictator. As Howard said, I really wish America would get back to being a democracy soon...
@Romanite™
*screams* It's extremely clear to me that you've never taken the time to look into the WORKING BIZ MODELS that many freelance artists use these days. They still make their money, yet their music is free. We WON'T follow the "rules" because it's extremely clear by the sheer number of people who "file-share" that the "rules" isn't what the PEOPLE want. A "democracy" is ruled by the people's wants and needs, not the industry's. That right there is why we're working toward getting the laws changed, to reflect the people's views. I won't say your thoughts don't matter, because they do, but in a "democracy" we go with what more people think. In a common classroom, there are more students who download their music via file-sharing than those who sit there saying that they rather make billionaires even richer.
There is no difference between pirating movies and pirating music, it's all the same and is the same darn point. Everything i've said also applies to movies, figure it out.
@Irviding
Here's a question, if the gov passed a law saying that every first born were to be killed within a week, and the people protested and didn't obey, what would you think of the issue? Would you agree to kill millions of innocent people, or disobey the law in order to get society to see the issue? That's what we're doing now, breaking laws to get them reformed.
@Howard_Crane
I take that "Mr. Piratebay" as a compliment, thank you ~smile~
katy perry is hot
Seasoned Veteran
Leo Ghost said:
You're grasping at straws here Ghost.. that's totally ridiculous and out of this world and you're trying to meld me over by comparing internet piracy to murder of first born children..
Breaking laws to get them reformed isn't going to do anything my friend. Piracy will never become legal. That pirate party in Europe has absolutely no chance of securing a majority in Parliament in any Country, and frankly it's unfair to those who put work in to making these songs to allow them to be sold illegally.
You simply CAN NOT justify blatantly breaking this law.
Rich Edmonds
Seasoned Veteran
I'm gonna defend Ghost here, why?
Well I'll tell ya:
- Half of the music today is total crap, you have The ting Tings (if you like them, you honestly have no taste in music) etc. which I refuse to believe the record labels think they are good, they just see dollar signs.
- Music labels want more money.
- Music should be free.
- Loads and tons and lots of artists, remixers and other singers are releasing free music, they have jobs and do it as a hobby, why can't everyone else?
- Illegal downloading is not actually illegal, like Ghost pointed out, you are copying the file, you only get told off for sharing it FROM your machine, but I see it as publicity improvement for the artist.
- The artist gets a global coverage through the P2P network and therefore gains more fans = more money at concerts and merchandise.
- I don't justify how 70p a song is worth it.
- 5 in 10 (probably) people share music on P2P networks.
- It's much more convenient than logging into iTunes all the time.
- No DRM, I had to buy a song twice on iTunes due to me buying it on my iPhone first as I had no PC access and then the song got deleted when syncing the iPhone, so I had to repurchase it, that's £1.50 for ONE song.
- Ripping the companies off? I don't think so, there is more money in that business than anything! They aren't loosing money, they are just loosing profits, who cares that they can't buy their 5th house in Spain, BOO HOO!
- It's in the middle of a recession, people have no money to spare on a privilege.
- I can listen to it on radio, last.fm etc. so why can't I listen to it on my PC and iPod? I have a valid last.fm subscription, so I do spend my money, only on things I seem fit to purchase.
- I have got maybe 100 albums and CD's and around 20 songs paid from iTunes, I feel that I am entitled to some free content as I have put some money into a business that should be free.
People should be punished more for it? you are joking right? Someone got billed £10,000 for 10 songs! 10 songs! That's one more than 9 and one less than 11, £10,000 and you want it raised? For fielms, I download them off torrents, watch them, if they are good I buy them and delete it off my PC, if it's rubbish then I wont buy it, I don't see that as a problem.
Well I'll tell ya:
- Half of the music today is total crap, you have The ting Tings (if you like them, you honestly have no taste in music) etc. which I refuse to believe the record labels think they are good, they just see dollar signs.
- Music labels want more money.
- Music should be free.
- Loads and tons and lots of artists, remixers and other singers are releasing free music, they have jobs and do it as a hobby, why can't everyone else?
- Illegal downloading is not actually illegal, like Ghost pointed out, you are copying the file, you only get told off for sharing it FROM your machine, but I see it as publicity improvement for the artist.
- The artist gets a global coverage through the P2P network and therefore gains more fans = more money at concerts and merchandise.
- I don't justify how 70p a song is worth it.
- 5 in 10 (probably) people share music on P2P networks.
- It's much more convenient than logging into iTunes all the time.
- No DRM, I had to buy a song twice on iTunes due to me buying it on my iPhone first as I had no PC access and then the song got deleted when syncing the iPhone, so I had to repurchase it, that's £1.50 for ONE song.
- Ripping the companies off? I don't think so, there is more money in that business than anything! They aren't loosing money, they are just loosing profits, who cares that they can't buy their 5th house in Spain, BOO HOO!
- It's in the middle of a recession, people have no money to spare on a privilege.
- I can listen to it on radio, last.fm etc. so why can't I listen to it on my PC and iPod? I have a valid last.fm subscription, so I do spend my money, only on things I seem fit to purchase.
- I have got maybe 100 albums and CD's and around 20 songs paid from iTunes, I feel that I am entitled to some free content as I have put some money into a business that should be free.
People should be punished more for it? you are joking right? Someone got billed £10,000 for 10 songs! 10 songs! That's one more than 9 and one less than 11, £10,000 and you want it raised? For fielms, I download them off torrents, watch them, if they are good I buy them and delete it off my PC, if it's rubbish then I wont buy it, I don't see that as a problem.
It's a debate forum last time I looked, like they say cooking: can't stand the heat? Stay out of the kitchen.
Howard_Crane
Reputable
Irviding
It's clear you don't live on the planet we live on. In our world, politicians don't want our opinions, they see themselves as babysitters. That's where the term "Nannystate" came from.
And it's people who concoct our laws, and give them to the law enforcement agencies to enforce them.
They don't give a fuck what WE think. Look up a concept called "Burden of Omniscience". Our rulers are incapable of being anything but corrupt and useless.
This is what you call Fascism. When the voice of the people is ignored.
But uh.. yeah.. continue.
I'll stay on my planet.
It's clear you don't live on the planet we live on. In our world, politicians don't want our opinions, they see themselves as babysitters. That's where the term "Nannystate" came from.
And it's people who concoct our laws, and give them to the law enforcement agencies to enforce them.
They don't give a fuck what WE think. Look up a concept called "Burden of Omniscience". Our rulers are incapable of being anything but corrupt and useless.
This is what you call Fascism. When the voice of the people is ignored.
But uh.. yeah.. continue.
I'll stay on my planet.
katy perry is hot
Seasoned Veteran
Howard_Crane said:Irviding
It's clear you don't live on the planet we live on. In our world, politicians don't want our opinions, they see themselves as babysitters. That's where the term "Nannystate" came from.
And it's people who concoct our laws, and give them to the law enforcement agencies to enforce them.
They don't give a ***** what WE think. Look up a concept called "Burden of Omniscience". Our rulers are incapable of being anything but corrupt and useless.
This is what you call Fascism. When the voice of the people is ignored.
But uh.. yeah.. continue.
I'll stay on my planet.
Conspiracy theorist much?
When politicians ignore the voice of the people they don't get re-elected 🙂
Howard_Crane
Reputable
Afraid of conspiracy much?
Did you fall asleep during history class? History is full of conspiracies.
And this isn't conspiracy, you illiterate fuck. Either you're illiterate, or you're just throwing about a meme.
Conspiracy is when people get together behind everyone's backs, to do something that effects those the secret was kept from.
This happens to be fact. There's a Fascist symbol in your Congress.
And "the voice of the people" you refer to is the media-simplification of the voice of the people. They fit us into these neat little categories, and convince us to keep sitting there. Then they give you a choice of politicians, each representing a neat little category of their own.
Then they let you vote. This only happens about every 4 years.
So anything that these jackasses do, while representing the imaginary category, isn't what the voters counted on. They counted on a President to "represent" some kind of donkey hotie windmill like abortion or some shit.
Did you fall asleep during history class? History is full of conspiracies.
And this isn't conspiracy, you illiterate fuck. Either you're illiterate, or you're just throwing about a meme.
Conspiracy is when people get together behind everyone's backs, to do something that effects those the secret was kept from.
This happens to be fact. There's a Fascist symbol in your Congress.
And "the voice of the people" you refer to is the media-simplification of the voice of the people. They fit us into these neat little categories, and convince us to keep sitting there. Then they give you a choice of politicians, each representing a neat little category of their own.
Then they let you vote. This only happens about every 4 years.
So anything that these jackasses do, while representing the imaginary category, isn't what the voters counted on. They counted on a President to "represent" some kind of donkey hotie windmill like abortion or some shit.
Howard_Crane
Reputable
Sorry, I have a loose tongue.
[youtube]qhtgxS6z9yo[/youtube]
[youtube]qhtgxS6z9yo[/youtube]
It's what the people want? If everybody in New York said "I want a free computer" would they be given them because it's a democracy? No. Yes, a democracy is what the people want, but it has to be legally/morally right! If "the people" said they wanted to kill every dog, would the government go out and fulfill the "peoples" wishes? No.
The artists lose alot of money when songs are downloaded illegally, rather than from their own music stores. Why? Because they are paid royalties by iTunes and Amazon for the right to sell their songs. What if an artist is just starting out? They can sell their music in stores to help get more money to increase their song productions, and help set up for concerts.
Make pirating songs illegal
@Irviding
It's not "blatantly" if you must keep explaining it man.
@Romanite™
"What if an artist is just starting out?" - You do realize that by an artist releasing their work on P2P they instantly reach a little over 50 million people. If the people like their work, they donate, that's instant money back, but only if the music is good. If the music sucks, you don't donate to it, simple as that. For example, I found Nine Inch nails via P2P, and if they ever have a concert around here you can bet my butt i'll go to it. That's supporting the artist, not going to the store and giving them less than 9% of the CD's face value.
This is why there is nothing morally wrong with it, because you can support the artist. Honestly, I would rather give my full $15 for every CD I buy directly to the artist via a donate on their site than to the store.
Also,
"That pirate party in Europe has absolutely no chance of securing a majority in Parliament in any Country"
You do know that in Sweden the Pirate Party holds the most votes of males under the age of 30 right now, correct? They now have a seat in the EU, and Germany. It will be a matter of years before the Pirate Party has taken Europe, and once they finish up there, America is next buddy.
It's not "blatantly" if you must keep explaining it man.
@Romanite™
"What if an artist is just starting out?" - You do realize that by an artist releasing their work on P2P they instantly reach a little over 50 million people. If the people like their work, they donate, that's instant money back, but only if the music is good. If the music sucks, you don't donate to it, simple as that. For example, I found Nine Inch nails via P2P, and if they ever have a concert around here you can bet my butt i'll go to it. That's supporting the artist, not going to the store and giving them less than 9% of the CD's face value.
This is why there is nothing morally wrong with it, because you can support the artist. Honestly, I would rather give my full $15 for every CD I buy directly to the artist via a donate on their site than to the store.
Also,
"That pirate party in Europe has absolutely no chance of securing a majority in Parliament in any Country"
You do know that in Sweden the Pirate Party holds the most votes of males under the age of 30 right now, correct? They now have a seat in the EU, and Germany. It will be a matter of years before the Pirate Party has taken Europe, and once they finish up there, America is next buddy.
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