Your views on this are needed

Gimgak said:
NBK*Twitch said:
Snobothehobo said:
The fact remains that none of these four are illegal themselves. They can just be used to do illegal things. That's like banning a glassblowing forum because you can make bongs with glassblowing techniques.
Well making a bong is not illegal either 😛. Its what you can smoke through it,thats illegal.(and thats only in certain areas depending on the smokable)
Making a bong is illegal, making a water pipe however is perfectly fine, unless you're Tommy Chong.

But yeah FP should allow the sites, a lot of these activities are just grey, not illegal.
If making a bong is illegal why does every dang head shop here have them. Hell even a few mom and pop gas stations sell them.

I am also in Florida so medical weed is not legal here. Like I said its what you can smoke with it thats illegal.

Now if a cop does see your bong and it has marks from smoking in it,it can be considered paraphernalia.

Leave it to the U.S.A to create fudged up laws...
 
This thread has been set up at Fergal's request so we can judge your thoughts and opinions on the matter, there have been some debates on how far FP should go with regards to these issues, especially botting for Runescape.
Is his keyboard broken?
Fergal, there is no way to satisfy everyone. When you block it for FP, then the people who like to discuss them will be mad, if you make them allowed then the people who think its illegal will think you are a jerk. Do what you want, just like last week. :shock:
 
NBK*Twitch said:
Gimgak said:
NBK*Twitch said:
Snobothehobo said:
The fact remains that none of these four are illegal themselves. They can just be used to do illegal things. That's like banning a glassblowing forum because you can make bongs with glassblowing techniques.
Well making a bong is not illegal either 😛. Its what you can smoke through it,thats illegal.(and thats only in certain areas depending on the smokable)
Making a bong is illegal, making a water pipe however is perfectly fine, unless you're Tommy Chong.

But yeah FP should allow the sites, a lot of these activities are just grey, not illegal.
If making a bong is illegal why does every dang head shop here have them. Hell even a few mom and pop gas stations sell them.

I am also in Florida so medical weed is not legal here. Like I said its what you can smoke with it thats illegal.

Now if a cop does see your bong and it has marks from smoking in it,it can be considered paraphernalia.

Leave it to the U.S.A to create fudged up laws...
Go to a headshop and I guarantee all the bongs will say Water Pipes, along with saying if you discuss anything illegal you may be asked to leave, yadda yadda. Bong = marijuana use, a water pipe = tobacco use. They can't sell you it "knowing" you'll use it for something illegal so its considered a water pipe, sold for tobacco use as is everything in a headshop to keep them from getting shut down.
 
ChrisG2010 said:
Botting on Runescape is scripts from sites that update to the ever changing Runescape. They are so advanced now days. They dont even move your mouse now days and people can just click a few buttons and let the scripts play for you. Some sites even sell their scripts. These scripts can play hours on end without you doing a thing. Making millions of gold and items in matter of a years worth of human play.

RS Botting is widely known and I am a part of a clan that is trying to stop them. Known as BAM. Botting Awareness Movement.

Not to be out of disrespect to you, but your in game preference should not be a decider of the rules. RuneScape macroing is not illegal, even deemed by JaGeX. It's only against their in game rules. I own a large RuneScape fansite, macroing is in no way against any legal legislation anywhere in the world.

According to Bad Bieber, "Botting - Use of a third party software that plays the game for you, allowing you to stay logged in to Runescape, even when not at the computer. Real pain to the legit players of the game, and strictly forbidden by Jagex." - The rules do not state anything other than illegal forums. A gaming forum allowing the modification of games may be illegal, but macroing on RuneScape and other MMORPGs does not defy and legislation.

Once again, no offense is intended to Bad Bieber, but why is "Real pain to the legit players of the game" included in the definition of macroing/botting? It's an opinion, and many real players actually benefit from macroing (and some don't). Prices stay down in game for example, but this is completely off-topic.

I would also like to mention, this thread opens opportunity for users to discuss their opinions. Sadly, many people are biased and base their comments on the fact that "Cheating in games is unethical". Odd enough, ethics are not a universal quality. What one may deem unethical, others may deem it completely ethical. Rules cannot (theoretically) apply to ethics, there would be chaos and complete ignorance if they did so.

I personally don't encourage macroing on RuneScape, people can do it if they want to. I rarely play, and if I do, I play fairly. I do believe though that disallowing people from advertising their forums due to an ethical reason is unethical in itself, since applying power due to a personal belief is not ethical itself.
 
Some games actually encourage macroing. I've played several Ultima Online servers where macroing is completely allowed or even encouraged.
 
I really think there is nothing bad about doing this, you guys banned my forum for having a modding section. I strictly disallow thing such as free steam accounts and links to copied games (and so does my host). I believe the reason for my site being banned was of a thread in the modding section, which is now removed because my host suspended me of it (I had no idea at that time.)

Anyway, modding and cheating in games isn't against the law at all, and I really believe sites that have it should be allowed on FP.

And also, my RuneScape forum thread got removed for having RuneScape Botting..... you guys all hate me. :<
 
On a side note, its almost a crime that Runscape, with its 1995 graphics, actually become so popular.
But that's more of a mystery than a debate.
No offense intended.
 
Who cares about graphics? My most played game of this year has been a business simulator with a bad interface and virtually no graphics, yet its probably the best game I've played and was done by an indie.
 
Guys/Gals please try top stay on topic thanks 😉

....and Renegader, we don't hate you, rules are rules 😉
 
A late response, but this topic is still on the first page of the Debate Corner.

This is assuming HawkHost has no issues with the mentioned practices.

The very nature of this topic is disregarding the fact that we are talking about modding or hacking or whatnot. We may not be telling each other "how", but for people who have no clue on what we are talking about, then searching it on Google, then practicing it, FP serves as a medium for such practices. Therefore we cannot be disallowing links to sites which discuss such practices as we merely are one step less in the middleman process for the end user to practice modding, hacking etc.

This is really an ethical issue on our side, a legal issue on the other side. Should Google be taken to court because they allow searches for modding, hacking, scripting etc.? No, because they serve as a medium of information, and technically, not obligating people to practice such and such. There is no illegality for users visiting any of the mentioned sites, and only when they practice such things, will then be a legal issue.

Again, we merely serve as a medium of information, whether legal or not, FP should not feel obligated to police other ToS'. To place responsibility on users, if this was allowed, users should make a note wherever, to say that this link will indeed contain such things.

Also note that we merely reduce our middleman process by blocking such sites, but consider if you were to allow this person's forum, and this person's forum linked to an "illegal" site, doesn't FP and that other site merely serve as a middleman of linking to such and such. No matter what, FP will have an extrinsic linkage towards illegal sites, by the very nature of such topics.

Some older links may now have become sites for such practices, and they are buried in the archive, but people can still open them and really, it defeats the purpose of the rule. I may have a link which redirects and advertises modding, but now we are out of the jurisdiction of FP, so why should FP be controlling what users can be linked to or not? In such ethical matters, the onus of the final decision to practice such things lies on us, and not on FP, so FP should have no reason to disallow such links.

Then consider the social issues. Would linking to a modding site be any better or worse than someone searching it up on Google? Would the wellbeing of a child be diminished because of FP, or really, would they have known about it prior to FP, from other sources, other people or through their own research? I believe there is a contradictory social issue here on FP, which sort of defeats the purpose of responsibility. If COPA is indeed applicable to FP, then minors would require the permission from their parents or caregiver, thus responsibility lies on the parents as they have given permission to use FP. Modding/hacking or whatever would only be a social issue for minors, as adults would bear the responsibility themselves because they are not under the authority of their parents anymore, so by contradiction, the onus lies back onto the parents if their child practices hacking.

I think FP should allow promotion of such sites, but within other subforums, discussion should not occur about such practices. Disallowing a thread where users on FP discuss modding and its fine details would be appropriate; disallowing a thread for promoting a link would defeat the purpose of FP.

FP should promote not police.

I don't know if any of that made sense.
 
I don't think it's that big a deal. As long as they aren't advertising the illegal things, and are just advertising their site, its okay.
 
I think inspecting sites for illegal activity is probably a good thing. Because really, if I were to own a forum such as this, I certainly wouldn't want any of my members promoting sites where there were things going on that could get them or us in trouble with the law. I was actually going to have you explain this a little more, and perhaps you could still do so, MissTake? I think I have the general idea after reading some replies, but I'm still lost, though.
 
Except none of these things are actually illegal, just prohibited by EULAs which aren't law.
 
Gimgak said:
Except none of these things are actually illegal, just prohibited by EULAs which aren't law.

I'm still for this idea, though. I mean, we have people of all ages, from all walks of life, promoting here. So it would be pretty bad to start to allow advertisement of sites with illegal activity in them. Sure, most people do have common sense, and once they even get a hint about something not being right, they do have the option to not sign up with the forum at all. But all the same, it really is better to be safe than sorry. I know there's different laws in different countries about this issue, but for newbie forum owners, if they look up such sites that the staff would label as inappropriate for illegal activity, they would know not to join such sites and that'll keep them from getting into serious trouble later on. Also, keep in mind that many hosts these days have a section in their policy where you are not allowed to create a forum based on illegal activity.
 
Yeah but like I said these things aren't illegal if they aren't actually a warez site. Jailbreaking is legal in the us, at least when it comes to the mobiles. Companies like apple just hate it, but its not illegal.
 
Like I've said before, here in the UK some of these things ARE illegal, it's illegal to download a movie or piece of music from a p2p file sharing site and to duplicate it to make a profit or distribute it, it's illegal to download a also download a game for the xbox, ps3, psp or DS and do the same....hence if you are doing these practices then you also need the knowledge on how to download and convert them, the knowledge on how to modify your appliances to play them.
The same with hacking sites, be it black or white hat hackers, you need to learn how to do it in the first place and as was proved recently in the UK news, it is illegal to hack into sites and accounts etc, you can and will be prosecuted if caught. Just because small forums and accounts, themes and data bases are the main area of attack for most who frequent FP doesn't mean that they will stay at low level hacking, there's always one who will think he's bigger and better than the rest.

As I am no longer CTL on here the decision does not effect me, I don't need to know what to allow or disallow but a decision one way or the other would be nice? This debate has been running for a good while now and I don't think we've had an answer yet?
 
Yes but the thing is jailbreaking doesn't mean installing cracked apps for the iphone, I mean sure that's possible but it also means using Cydia, a giant app store made up of apps that couldn't make it to the apple app store, both free and ones you have to pay for.
 
I think your best bet is to stay away from away from anything that directly instructs someone how to break the law. Why do you need the headache. Now if someone want's, say, instructions on how to set up a torrent client, that's different because people can download torrents legally in certain circumstances. Instructing someone on how to circumvent the law is another story. 🙂
 
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