Does the guy have a say....
- Thread starter Nebulous
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Watch Me Sink
Madly Diligent
In the USA he doesn't, be he absolutely should.
In a way.
He should be able to say, "I don't want this kid". And if the woman wants the kid, he should then void his responsibility for the child's care.
If it comes to married couples, that's harder. Ultimately, it would be both of their faults for not using proper protection. But it's the woman's body the abortion would be affecting. So no, a guy should not be able to simply say, I don't want a kid, have an abortion, and the woman must comply. But that's not the point I know.
If they decided to divorce over the kid, the father should be able to void his responsibility before the kid is born. And put it in writing.
A guy should not be forced into having a kid any more than a woman should.
He should be able to say, "I don't want this kid". And if the woman wants the kid, he should then void his responsibility for the child's care.
If it comes to married couples, that's harder. Ultimately, it would be both of their faults for not using proper protection. But it's the woman's body the abortion would be affecting. So no, a guy should not be able to simply say, I don't want a kid, have an abortion, and the woman must comply. But that's not the point I know.
If they decided to divorce over the kid, the father should be able to void his responsibility before the kid is born. And put it in writing.
A guy should not be forced into having a kid any more than a woman should.
Watch Me Sink
Madly Diligent
But when the dude has sex, he is accepting the risk of pregnancy. You can not just say, I'm going to have sex, but if the woman gets pregnant, screw that I'm outta here. No. If you have sex, you accept that a baby is going to be made, and that you have the RESPONSIBILITY to take care of the baby.
Have you ever seen the Maury Povich show?
Have you ever seen the Maury Povich show?
Kirisute Gomen said:
I understand that. But it's a woman's right to have an abortion and not have to deal with the responsibility of rearing a kid if they want.
And since he can't force a woman to have an abortion, he should be able to have some sort of equal right.
I'm not saying I like that idea, it's not something I would do. But there are plenty of guys that will run away anyway. Forcing a guy to stay is like banning abortions, women will get together and preform home-abortions anyway. And that isn't nearly safe, and many woman die.
Giving a guy the choice before a child is born, allows the mother to consider her options before taking on that responsibility.
After a child is born is a different story. But I won't go into that yet.
And no I haven't.
Usually i'm known for my extremely left views on a varity of subjects, but in this case I agree completely with Kirisute Gomen. It's a responsibility you accept when committing the act, much like driving a car, you understand there is a chance that you will be in an accident (or planned assassination) and could spend the rest of your life limited physically or mentally. The male should not be "forced" into having a child, but if he's going to be involved with the girl sexually he must understand that it could be a side-effect.
Watch Me Sink
Madly Diligent
The Maury Povich show has sexually active (sometimes even to the point of promiscuity) women that bring men in for DNA paternity tests. 99.99% of the time the man is a deadbeat person, on drugs or in gangs. After exchanging expletives (my, it sounds like we're trading Pokémon cards), the man and the woman sit down and find out if the man is the biological father of the baby. If the man is the father, he usually runs into the back, while the woman is jumping up and down, rejoicing. Conversely, if the man isn't the father, he is the one jumping up and down rejoicing that he doesn't have to pay child support.
Relating this to the topic at hand, if you're going to bang, plan ahead. DON'T bang first without thinking, find out that you or your partner are pregnant, and go on from there. Of all the pro-choice people out there, very few think that abortions should be used as birth control.
Relating this to the topic at hand, if you're going to bang, plan ahead. DON'T bang first without thinking, find out that you or your partner are pregnant, and go on from there. Of all the pro-choice people out there, very few think that abortions should be used as birth control.
katy perry is hot
Seasoned Veteran
I don't know what the Mary Povach show is but what I know is that it's the womans body. Period. It's her choice what happens to it.
Kirisute, if you were a woman and I were a man, what right would I have to tell the doctor to abort your baby because I don't want to provide for it? What right do I have to say that you can't have an abortion because I made you pregnant? This isn't the damn colonial times. Women are equal citizens and should be able to exert full and total control over their bodies.
Kirisute, if you were a woman and I were a man, what right would I have to tell the doctor to abort your baby because I don't want to provide for it? What right do I have to say that you can't have an abortion because I made you pregnant? This isn't the damn colonial times. Women are equal citizens and should be able to exert full and total control over their bodies.
Watch Me Sink
Madly Diligent
I never said that they should have full control, as I am against that. The baby is half of the man, half of the woman genetically, the only difference is that the woman cares for it in the 9 months before birth.
katy perry is hot
Seasoned Veteran
We all have been in Biology class too, I'm sure we all know that. However, your last statement is exactly my point. It is in the woman's body, not the mans. It is hers to take care of for 9 months in her body. It is her call what should happen to it. The man can have a non legal say in it with his wife/partner/whatever, but at the end of the day, it's her call.Kirisute Gomen said:
Kirisute Gomen said:
To be truthful, I agree with you. The problem is, people aren't good at planning ahead, in fact they are very bad at it. I don't think abortions should be used as birth control, but it is an option that women have. Men have no options after the fact.
As you say, they have plenty before the fact, but if someone decides to be stupid and not use them, there should be something for them to fall on. This isn't like a robbery case, it isn't about punishing the perpetrators for being dumb, a child is to think about. If that kid is gonna have a good life, it needs to be planned, and if it isn't, well, that kid shouldn't have to suffer once they are born for their parents mistakes. And many do.
There are so many variables in a topic like this... how rich the parents are, whether they have family to help them, whether the parents are married. All of these things determine different ends in this discussion.
If the parents have money, are married, and have family to help; then not only do I think abortion should not happen, but both parents have much more ability to rear the child.
But if it is the other way around, what can you say? The parents were drunk at the time of the "banging", they are poor, they have no family, or income-stable friends, the protection they used failed. I am trying to think of these people rather than looking at all cases in general.
Watch Me Sink
Madly Diligent
But it isn't her body. If she wanted to get her leg amputated, or hand blown off, that's one thing. But the baby has a beating heart, working organs 12 weeks into the pregnancy.
If a woman owned a house, and her husband, confined to that house, needed an oxygen tank to live, and the woman didn't want to pay the electric bill to run the oxygen machine, would that be murder? It's the woman's house
If a woman owned a house, and her husband, confined to that house, needed an oxygen tank to live, and the woman didn't want to pay the electric bill to run the oxygen machine, would that be murder? It's the woman's house
katy perry is hot
Seasoned Veteran
That's a ridiculous analogy.. A house is not a human being, and a baby is not an oxygen machine. You can't really use analogies in topics as sensitive as abortion effectively...Kirisute Gomen said:
And I will restate again, the baby is in the womans body. It lives off her body. It is part of her. It is not an independent being that can survive without her body.
Yes it is the womans body but its also the man's child inside her too.
If he wants the child and she doesnt, she should have the baby and then sign over her rights. However if she is really determined to kill his potential son or daughter, then I suppose she can.
If he wants the child and she doesnt, she should have the baby and then sign over her rights. However if she is really determined to kill his potential son or daughter, then I suppose she can.
katy perry is hot
Seasoned Veteran
First, let's be careful with using the word " kill " to talk about a potential being.theezy said:
Second, it's just not that simple though. You're treating it like a woman is some stupid useless containment building now. " Oh well she doesn't want it so she can hold it for 9 months and I can have it "
It just doesn't work that way. A woman isn't going to be able to care for a fetus for 9 months then just give it away when it's born while keeping her sanity and dignity. It just doesn't work that way.
If the woman was a decent person, she would have the child and then sign over her rights. I don't see how anyone could live with themselves killing someone's potential son or daughter when he wants it. Of course she has ever legal right to murder his potential child if she is determined no matter what he says.
Irviding said:
Excellently put.
There was a Law And Order episode where a couple were trying to have a kid, but the mother had some sort of problem I believe, so they used a surrogate mother as a gestational carrier.
I forgot who killed who, and what the story was about, but I remember that in the end, the surrogate decided not to give the baby back. Even though it wasn't her's.
She became attached to it, even though she had agreed to just be a temporary surrogate, and give the baby to it's parents, maternal instinct was stronger than her word, and the potential money.
Pregnancy isn't like body packing drugs, it affects the mind and instincts of the person.
theezy said:
If she was a decent person? Do you mean, if she was an emotionless person?
Irviding put it well, it affects her mentally. You can't just expect someone to just give her child away. I know your thinking, well why would she "kill" the child if someone wants it? This is all mental, once the child is born, it's harder to just give it away, then to terminate it early.
Watch Me Sink
Madly Diligent
It's harder to give a child away than to kill it?
Kirisute Gomen said:
*Sigh*
It's mental. Ok. It's instinct. Once the child is born, different instincts kick in that weren't there during the pregnancy. It's the same with many fathers. They may not want a child while their wife is pregnant, but once the child is born, of all a sudden, they are bombarded by this need to protect their kid.
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